I have heard from a private Mercedes shop repair about the particulate Diesel filter about the importance of keep the system clean because it is very cost to have it repaired.
My 2008 E320 Bluetec does not have the reservoir to ad DEF and then I come with the question: what should I do to keep this system clean?
Are there some special fluid or something that can be done to keep the system working good?
The owners manual does not say anything about it.
Any information?
Thanks

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Nyck - TX - USA

I too have a 2008 Bluetec. We are fortunate in not having the DEF to deal with. It does absolutely nothing for the engine and is only there to make it's breath sweeter.

Do not stress over keeping your fuel system clean. Your fuel filters will do their job. You can help by trying to buy your fuel at high-volume fueling stations such as truck stops who are particular about keeping their fuel clean. DEF is not intended to clean fuel systems.

I also have a 36 year old MB Diesel that does not of course, use DEF. It has 366000 miles and runs strong and reliably by simply changing filters periodically and avoiding mom and pop fueling stations.

Use Mobil 1 Delvac ESP diesel rated oil in it.

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Jim

The reason yours doesn't have DEF is that there's another way to clean the NoX trap (that's what the DEF does). At points in its operation your fuel system goes rich to burn off the NoX and clean the trap (I'm named on the patent for this method, way down at the bottom in the cast of supporting players). It costs very little in terms of fuel economy but most manufacturers opted to use DEF because it has NO impact on FE so their FE numbers look better. The system on your car should be self-supporting with no maintainence required until the aftertreatment module gives up the ghost which might - or might not - happen at pretty high mileage.


Dan

Perhaps a low ash oil like volkswagon specifies. Type 507. Ash apparently accumulates in these systems. Also regeneration at hotter running temperatures is better perhaps.

I am the first to admit I know little about them. I also run the high detergent premium diesel fuel. That may aid in keeping some things cleaner. At the same time I do not expect it to have much effect on the pollution control systems after it has been combusted.

Apparently premium diesel is not available in America yet from what I can tell. This also may be wrong. They also claim a nominal increase in fuel millage with the premium diesel. I have some difficulty with a lot of this.

If you are not burning base oil. How can this contribute to ash buildup? Plus why is premium diesel fuel seem to vary country to country? You have two nozzles on the pump. One dispenses straight diesel. The other nozzle adds additives to the straight diesel fuel. It costs about 7 cents an American gallon extra in Canada.

I just feel that if you are going to make ash it is primarily from the primary fuel burn. I guess it just amounts to do what you think best. The parts that are impacted are very expensive to replace apparently. From what I can tell. There is an expectation that some will have to be replaced down the road.

There are ways to test for retained ash content apparently. It might be best if a person can grab the parts cheap from a pick and pull at some point. From a low millage wreck. Volkswagons first check of the condition of some of these components is at 120,000 miles. Some will need changed at that point or some will have to be rechecked every 20 thousand miles after. If they still pass. Again I have not really gotten into this other than a very small amount of reading.

I do not expect there to be a radical difference between Volkswagon and Mercedes basic systems. A break the Mercedes owners may be getting is I suspect they are turning off the reburning of the exhaust gasses as well.

Where volkswagon was forced to turn them on constantly. This builds up a lot of carbon in that loop circuit. It was why Volkswagon turned their systems off originally.

I was thinking that it may be best for me to turn off that recycling system as soon as the extended warranty expires. The only issue is the roadside vehicle checks are starting to use tailpipe sniffers I understand. Out of compliance enough and the car gets towed is the word around here.

I would leave the ad blue working though if I did turn off the loop. A question in my mind is why have they introduced this premium diesel fuel in a lot of countries. The premium diesel shell sells in Canada they claim has three different detergent types. It is not available all over the place yet but the retail places are increasing.

The pump attendant told me he is starting to sell a lot of it. On one fill up there was a lot less foaming and I wondered if the additive injection tank was dry. I asked the vendor where it was and he told me behind the station. As I saw no evidence out front of new pavement where an additional tank would have been installed.

I know it foams to an extent it is hard to believe. If the tank is down to about a quarter. If I open up the nozzle. I get less than two gallons in before the foam shuts it off.

There is quite a lot written about the regeneration issues. A lot of highway use is perhaps the best. All short around town trips may be far worse.

Volkswagon on the 2012 Passat actually has two warranties. You use the one that best benefits you at the time. One stops just before the 120 thousand mile ash check. The other stops earlier. I thought that agencies like the epa insisted that the manufacturer is responsible to keep these systems working for so many years. At the manufactures cost. This may vary from country to country. Perhaps ten to twelve years?

I have not looked into it but vaguely remember something I read. If we keep the car I will be looking for a particle filter from a very low milage wreck. After I find out what a new one costs probably.

The wife is driving the Passat about thirty five thousand miles a year at the current pace. It is over 95 percent highway. She likes the car and mentioned.Would I like a porche better the other day.

I got off the hook telling her that there is no room in them for your shopping trips. Where the Passat has a massive trunk. I put a totally assembled 20 inch wheeled bilke in that trunk. Without lowering the back seats. It was tight but still that is a lot of room. There is also at least a foot of space ahead of the back seat.

This car would be amazing with the six speed manual transmission. Unfortunatly a poster somewhere mentioned they are not going to be resold because they do not meet pollution requirements. This transmission was never sold in Canada In the Passats. It was in America.

These are basically audi A4s with a diesel. Assembled in America. It is the same two liter diesel engine with a water cooled intercooler as the Jetta has. It does have different injectors and is programed for a wider torque band and holds the same fuel milage as the jetta. On a good day you might pull 55 MPG on the American gallon. On the highway with a manual transmission. I do not know what this one is really capable of. The few times I have driven it on the highway. Not pushing it hard. The display is indicating 5 liters of fuel for 62 miles with the tiptronic six speed transmission. Sometimes these displays are accurate and sometimes not.Yet not that far off. It still has the original 2012 dated goodyear eagle tires on it. They are 215 55 17 inch and volkswagon may have chosen them for their low rolling resistance. They are not worn much yet either so the rubber compound may be hard. I do not know if the American cars where sold with them on. I do know not many where if any. The Canadain cars also had the block engine heater reintroduced at the factory.

If you can find a good low milage example for 6 to 7 thousand American with low milage. Plus that warranty. That is mandatory by the government. You might want to take it for a drive. A poor mans Mercedes? Most are extremely well optioned. It has to be a 2012 or newer. Also remember these cars where off the road for quite some time. The platform seems strong and they handle decently. The body style has basically been continued up to today. If you cannot get them that cheap in America. I might help out. At least in locating them.

They are produced in America so no issue taking them home. Plus the warranties are the same both sides of the border. Many of these where 35-40 thousand dollar cars all in. I found a 2013 with about eight thousand miles on it. It might be about eight thousand dollars American. The wifes car has everything but navigation and a back up camera. Plus the optional rubber mats came with it.This one has black synthetic leather seats as well. Some have cloth but seats are not an option as such. The highline automatically has an all leather type interior. The comfortline that the wife has seems to have both available. The trendline is cloth. It also was the only model with the six speed manual sold only in America as well I think. You usually cannot get these buybacks from Volkswagon dealers cheap. The common source is used car dealers. There are thousands out around the country at this time for sale. Sometimes you experience a little buyers remorse. After buying a car. These do not seem to present it unless you pay too much for one I suppose. I see some Volkswagon dealers trying to get really high dollars out of them.

These may just be the only opportunity we will ever see in our time for a situation like this to occur. I am thinking of picking up a jetta buyback if they are selling those with a manual transmission. There is no hope of getting the Passat with one. The jetta is on the audi a3 platform but made in Mexico. It is a no brainer. We paid 33K all in for our loaded 2000 jetta diesel all those years go. Todays jetta diesel is a lot more car in almost all ways. Aquiring one at the right price I have no issues with.

Dan; the 2007 and 2008 Benz BlueTec V6 Diesels use neither DEF or nor a NoX trap. They were transition engines. DEF was introduced to the sedans in 2009. I think only California Diesels in those years required a trap.

As an interesting side, my OM617A Diesel (in the 1983) is very happy to burn the low-sulfur 40 cetane fuel although it was designed for the much dirtier fuel of earlier years. I removed the egr system about 6 years ago and cleaned the intake manifold. The intake remains clean now and the engine sings.

I've got a customer with a 09 E320 BlueTec without DEF.

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Jim

O.K. I am corrected.

Thanks for your explanation. Very informative.
I had a 2009 Bluetec and also not using DEF.

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Nyck - TX - USA

I was on the development end of all this and the Heavy Duty end at that so I'm not fully up to speed on when what went into production, especially on the light duty (passenger car) stuff. No doubt you guys have a better handle on that than I do. If these cars lack a NoX trap in the aftertreatment system then of course they would not use either DEF or fuel enrichment. At one point VW used fuel enrichment on their lower HP engines and DEF of the higher performance versions - I don't know the years nor the rationale.


I deleted the EGR on Mutt's engine at the time I installed the 617 and there seems to be no downside. Of course, little on the outside of the engine (fuel system, exhaust, etc) is OEM. On the other hand we don't drive more than 25-50 miles/year under MB power so that's probably not a great baseline to use for anything street driven!


Dan