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  #1  
Old 11-29-2019, 12:53 PM
cmac2012's Avatar
Renaissances Dude
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Redwood City, CA
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Anybody rebuild their 617 turbo?

I took my 300D to the Vietnamese mechanic who owns two 350SD(s) to adjust the valves and check/clean the injectors. I had not done either and didn't want to risk messing up the injectors at this point. I'll get some at a bone yard later and experiment. He let me watch him do the valves which was useful. They had been pretty tight but there was still a tiny gap.

He got it running much smoother. He thinks the turbo is not operating or doing so quite poorly. I see rebuild kits and vids on the web availabl from some guy. Looks doable.

I had a lovely Thanksgiving - on either side of dinner, I replaced the oil cooler lines. The lower one had been leaking. OMG, that was a tricky job. In addition to removing the left side shock, unscrewing the motor mount and raising the engine, I also took one of the leads in the steering gear out in order to get the top line out. I had my drain pan under, I figured renewing some the PS fluid couldn't hurt.

The instructions from our buddy didn't hurt but there are couple of items I would add. Might do a thread on it later.

But getting the turbo in top shape would be big.

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  #2  
Old 11-29-2019, 01:15 PM
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Have you actually put a gauge on the boost line to see the pressure being produced?
Also, have you checked to see if the alda is getting boost to provide additional fuel?
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84 300SD 350K+ miles ( Blue Belle )
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2019, 01:33 PM
ROLLGUY's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Blue View Post
Have you actually put a gauge on the boost line to see the pressure being produced?
Also, have you checked to see if the alda is getting boost to provide additional fuel?
Agreed. No need to rebuild the turbo if the ALDA is not getting the proper boost signal. The banjo bolt at the rear of the intake manifold gets clogged, so that is where I would start. If you still have the overboost valve in the system, it might be bad as well. I usually bypass this valve anyway. A good boost signal can be felt by removing the banjo fitting at the ALDA and holding it loosely between two fingers while revving the engine. Another method is to hold the engine RPM about 2,500 and hold the banjo fitting with a rubber gloved finger (sealing the outside of the fitting) against the ALDA. If engine RPM increases, you have a good signal.
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Old 11-29-2019, 02:45 PM
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Location: Redwood City, CA
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Excellent advice. I have been planning to check the boost. My first MB was an '81 300SD. On the recommend of a friend I adjusted something in the alda and got more power, Way unscientific, I'm embarrassed to admit it.

I need to study these components and actually understand what's going on. It's not rocket science but it is science, my take anyway.

Speaking of which, anybody know what this item is?



Right front fender, here's a longer view:



My mechanic buddy says it's not getting vacuum, is some sort of toggle. My vacuum is weak, it's far from non-existant, the door locks sort of work as does engine shutoff. I'm ashamed to admit I haven't yet measured vacuum. Was going to do it yesterday but those oil lines kicked my buttocks.
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Last edited by cmac2012; 12-02-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2019, 03:11 PM
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"Speaking of which, anybody know what this item is?"
Vacuum transducer. They are mostly used for emission controls. I usually remove all of the vacuum consumers except for the door locks (yellow), climate control (green), engine shutoff (brown), and automatic transmission modulator (black). All other vacuum lines and valves/switches/modules are not needed (in my opinion). When they were new, I am sure they were useful and functioned as designed. Many years/miles later, they wear out and/or leak. You may find that deleting all the many meters of vac lines and fittings will give back a working central locking system, immediate engine shutoff, and smooth shifting.
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2019, 05:55 PM
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Sounds like excellent advice. I’m planning to delete the EGR on this soon And do any cleaning of gunk that might go along with that.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2019, 01:13 PM
cmac2012's Avatar
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BTW, I’ve gapped valves many times, but never on a 617. I read about the bent wrenches, I ordered some from Etsy. Then I get a message saying they’ll ship in 4 or 5 days Almost 2 weeks and I still haven’t got them. I really wanted to go north in this car in the trip I’m now on and I figured it was time to admit that I still didn’t know enough about this engine to get that damn shaking out. And I read about valve damage from heat when they wouldn’t close completely. Turns out they were getting close to that stage but not quite.
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
BTW, I’ve gapped valves many times, but never on a 617. I read about the bent wrenches, I ordered some from Etsy. Then I get a message saying they’ll ship in 4 or 5 days Almost 2 weeks and I still haven’t got them. I really wanted to go north in this car in the trip I’m now on and I figured it was time to admit that I still didn’t know enough about this engine to get that damn shaking out. And I read about valve damage from heat when they wouldn’t close completely. Turns out they were getting close to that stage but not quite.
If you have a torch and even just one long 14mm wrench, it can be done. For a long time I only had one bent wrench (for the bottom nut), and used a regular wrench for the top. Did many this way.
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2019, 10:11 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Location: Lafayette Indiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
BTW, I’ve gapped valves many times, but never on a 617. I read about the bent wrenches, I ordered some from Etsy. Then I get a message saying they’ll ship in 4 or 5 days Almost 2 weeks and I still haven’t got them. I really wanted to go north in this car in the trip I’m now on and I figured it was time to admit that I still didn’t know enough about this engine to get that damn shaking out. And I read about valve damage from heat when they wouldn’t close completely. Turns out they were getting close to that stage but not quite.
You can check clearance with no wrenches. Good chance the valves are fine. The five cylinder has a hop at idle which is normal. It is much less if the car is equipped with the heavy flywheel required for a clutch. I'd ask an experienced five cylinder owner if your hop is normal.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2019, 09:48 PM
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Post D.I.Y. Turbo, Vacuum Pipes etc.

Rich's idle test revealed to me that my boost sensing pipe, banjo bolt and switchover valve were all clogged .

Easy - peasy to clean out using the purple degreaser from SAMS Club and other places .

I used a kit from that guy in Washington State to overhaul my turbo charger, I was certain it'd be too complex but everyone said it's simple and it is ~ the more odd shaped or short wrenches you have the easier it'll be .

I'm eventually going to overhaul another using the same kits but 1/5th the price from Pop Shop....

Before you delete the EGR piping and switches, get the engine hot and idling and apply strong vacuum to the EGR valve proper ~ unless it makes the idle bad or stalls the engine, the EGR valve isn't working, find out why not (usually 1/2 way open & stuck with goo), fix it (again easy-peasy to remove and clean well then loosen the 10MM ATF nut and run in the adjusting screw until you can't blow through it) , re install and delete all those pesky, leaky rocker box valves and pipes, you'll love how much better the car runs and the tranny shifts .

True European spec cars don't have all that crap .
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1982 240D 408,XXX miles
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2019, 09:25 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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I rebuilt one turbo over the years to get rid of a whistle. It still whistled when done. They really last a long time. I'd never rebuild one unless it had an obvious problem and did not work at all.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2019, 10:46 AM
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,600
I'll be paying attention to this thread, got a turbo rebuild in progress myself. Mine doesn't spool smoothly, I'm sure is just jam packed full of carbon, and is leaking oil. Constant smoke at idle and I get quite a blue cloud out the exhaust when it first starts spooling.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2019, 11:36 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Yeah, I would too.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2019, 04:01 PM
cmac2012's Avatar
Renaissances Dude
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 33,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwnate1 View Post
Rich's idle test revealed to me that my boost sensing pipe, banjo bolt and switchover valve were all clogged .

Easy - peasy to clean out using the purple degreaser from SAMS Club and other places .

I used a kit from that guy in Washington State to overhaul my turbo charger, I was certain it'd be too complex but everyone said it's simple and it is ~ the more odd shaped or short wrenches you have the easier it'll be .

I'm eventually going to overhaul another using the same kits but 1/5th the price from Pop Shop....

Before you delete the EGR piping and switches, get the engine hot and idling and apply strong vacuum to the EGR valve proper ~ unless it makes the idle bad or stalls the engine, the EGR valve isn't working, find out why not (usually 1/2 way open & stuck with goo), fix it (again easy-peasy to remove and clean well then loosen the 10MM ATF nut and run in the adjusting screw until you can't blow through it) , re install and delete all those pesky, leaky rocker box valves and pipes, you'll love how much better the car runs and the tranny shifts .

True European spec cars don't have all that crap .
I'll do this - are you saying to get my little mightyvac vacuum pump and apply vacuum t o the vavle independent of anything the vacuum pump may or may not be doing?

Also, not sure what you're referring to with this:
Quote:
and delete all those pesky, leaky rocker box valves and pipes
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I rebuilt one turbo over the years to get rid of a whistle. It still whistled when done. They really last a long time. I'd never rebuild one unless it had an obvious problem and did not work at all.
On Diesel Truck Engines whistling often comes from a leak in the Intake Manifold to Cylinder Head Gasket or where the Turbo Connects to the Intake.

Unfortunately I can't remember the proportions (likely can be looked up on the internet) but you can make a mix of Dawn Dish Soap mixed with Water to make mix that you can blow bubbles with and you spray that on a cold Engine around the Intake Manifold connections and also around the Exhaust Manifold to Cylinder head gasket area. Start the Engine and rev the Engine so that Turbo will Boost and if here is a leak you will see bubbles. My Boss where I work showed me this.

The waste gate hose could also be a leak area and the ADLA connectors and hoses.

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