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  #1  
Old 08-24-2020, 07:28 PM
E300d 1995
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Near Lake Texoma
Posts: 323
95 E300D front power window motor lubrication question

For several months both front windows will not roll down reliably ( hardly ever ).

I'm guessing the main problem is the tiny relay contacts in the comfort module beneath the rear seat. I haven't wanted to mess with that until I was sure the door window motors and regulators were in top condition to reduce current flow.

Today I removed the passenger side front motor and regulator. Regulator looks good and will need lubrication along with the associated slides.

The problem I've encountered is the motor gear internals appear to have no lubrication remaining. Attached picture shows a fine dust that came out of the gear area. It is dry and really fine particles the consistency of really fine sawdust powder.

What lubrication should I use? I'd like to protect the plastic gear from wear and lubricate both ends of the shaft.

The motor brushes are not tightly sealed from that area so I don't want to use anything that might contaminate the brushes.

The motor brushes and commutator are in excellent condition.

Attached Thumbnails
95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-window-motor-gear-dry-powder.jpg   95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-window-motor-components.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2020, 01:36 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: CA
Posts: 147
The very best lubricant is Krytox 205. If you have put all that effort into cleaning the motor, you may as well use a fluoride based grease that is compatible with both metal, rubber, and plastic. It is usually used on the sunroof tracks. You can get a 4 0z tube for $100 on eBay or a 1 oz tube for $40 on Amazon. The advantage of a fluoride grease is that it does not oxidize or evaporate, so you will never deal with dried out grease again. It is worth the money for jobs just like the one you are doing, where the grease does not get contaminated by outside dirt. You can grease your motor and never have to do that job again.
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  #3  
Old 08-25-2020, 01:49 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 40,058
Note there is also a bearing at the tail end that needs lubrication.

I have never read of anyone recommending a specific lube but I have not looked deeply into that and read a bunch of threads on that. However, there is lube for plastic gears and an internet search would reveal some companies.

When I tool apart the W123 motor I used wheel bearing grease on the worm gear end. Will that do something to the Plastic gear? I don't know. Also I live in S CA and so I don't have to deal with Winter weather making the grease I put in the Window Motor get too thick to work.

In the past people used to use Lubriplate on all kinds of things. Lubriplate is a thin white colored grease. I don't know if it can be used on plastic gears or not but I would guess a visit to the companies site would answer that.
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  #4  
Old 08-25-2020, 10:58 AM
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Location: Long Beach,CA
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From one of the replies in the below thread: "Auto parts stores and real hardware stores (True Value, Ace, etc.) sell lots of different greases, including many from Lubriplate (assembly lube is OK). TV-radio parts supply houses, hobby electronics shops, and Fry's have the brands used in electronics, including GC Electronics and M-G Chemicals."

In one of the replies it said Lithium Grease containing no petroleum products in it.
https://slickdeals.net/f/2739095-lubrication-for-plastic-gears
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  #5  
Old 08-26-2020, 08:38 PM
E300d 1995
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Near Lake Texoma
Posts: 323
Thanks for the replies. I never pulled the back cover off the gear housing due to the requirement to grind off the rivets and the trip to pickup necessary screws to put the cover back on. I would have preferred pulling it completely apart but want to get the car ready for a trip to Taos in September.

I did use a Krytox grease on the shaft ends and bearing surfaces. Guessing it has the pre-lubed bearings with a dry lubricant built in. I had a tube left over from a lube I used after I put a zert on my belt tensioner a few years ago.

I used Molykote 33 on the plastic gear teeth and the tracks where the plastic slides go. Supposedly there is a better choice from Molykote for sliding mechanisms but I used what I had on hand.

I used Mobil 1 synthetic wheel bearing grease on the toothed gear driven by the motor.

Problem area found with the regulator was the pivot where the spring is attached. It was stiffer/tighter than expected. The spring would not move/return the gear arm.

I first tried using spray lithium grease. That helped the pivots where the plastic slides are, but didn't free up the spring pivot.

Next I dribbled 85/90 rear axle lube in the space where the arms come together. That helped a little. What appeared to work best was pouring a little 85/90 on top of spring center point. That must have worked it's way into the shaft area. Wish I could have thought of a better way since that will dry out fairly quickly.

Luckily we're quite a ways north of Galveston and out of harms way from the hurricane. Really feel for the folks down south. looks like it will be really bad for a lot of them.
Attached Thumbnails
95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-regulator-spring-pivot.jpg   95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-regulator-teeth-lubed.jpg   95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-brose-part.number.jpg  
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2020, 04:12 PM
I told you so!
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Motor City, MI
Posts: 2,848
I use Dow Molycote 33. It was given to me free. This grease is designed to lubricate at low temperatures, is good for plastics. Not much worse than Krytox, but much cheaper.
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2020, 02:33 PM
E300d 1995
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Near Lake Texoma
Posts: 323
Put window motor and regulator back this morning photos comments

Had to rig an umbrella, the Texas sun is intense today.

Just a few comments.

1. I used a battery charger to jump the motor leads for motion. Kept me from using the regular window switches.

2. Biggest task was figuring out how to get the single piece vertical slide back in position. Finally was able to figure it out by lowering window and arms almost all the way down. Then used a prop/lever board to help position the window. Photos show a little of how I did it. Was worried I might crack the glass but luckily I didn't.

3. Even lubed, the motor seems to draw a lot of current. My 14 gauge jump wires heated up pretty good while I was testing the up/down motion.

4. By using the 85/90 oil on the spring pivot, that arm was pivoting quite well under spring pressure ( before I put the motor in place ). I had to use a screw driver to block it from returning all the way ( so I could position the motor on the toothed gear ).

5. Last photo shows a jack and board that helped remove the door cover. The window was in the up position and I wasn't able to pry the upper cover clips loose until it was raised a ittle over a half inch.
Attached Thumbnails
95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-window-vertical-slide.jpg   95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-prop-lever-positioning-1.jpg   95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-lower-pivot-metal.jpg   95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-window-vertical-slide-lock-side.jpg   95 E300D  front power window motor lubrication question-95-e300d-using-jack-board-raise-door-cover-about-.6-inches.jpg  

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  #8  
Old 09-01-2020, 01:32 PM
E300d 1995
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Near Lake Texoma
Posts: 323
Finished the driver side motor and regulator refurb yesterday.

To me the window motors are built fairly strong. The commutator on both motors showed virtually no wear, just discoloration from the brushes.

I think a good small electric motor shop could replace the brushes, if ever needed, and the motors might never need replacing. I have read that the current overload protection component might fail and need to be jumpered across, but mine were good.

I pulled the window and never checked for it being in the front track when re-installed. That caused a bit of grief and frustration before I found out what I had done.

I ordered a 3M silicone paste 8 oz. 08946 that is touted as being a good lubricant/protectant for many purposes including power window mechanisms. Hoperfully that will prove to be a dood choice.

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