opposing piston diesel's anyone - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

oldsinner111 · #1 03-09-2021, 04:38 AM

have you heard of this new diesel, 3.L 3 cylinders 235 hp, 420 t? Nice now cams, or valve train.

cmac2012 · #2 03-09-2021, 05:06 AM

Interesting concept. No link.

oldsinner111 · #3 03-09-2021, 05:11 AM

motor trend has a article, forgot how to link

cmac2012 · #4 03-09-2021, 05:14 AM

This is good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF5j1DvC954

cmac2012 · #5 03-09-2021, 05:32 AM

It's an attractive idea in several ways. If they can make 2 stroke work, and it sounds promising, does simplify the motor, less power drain. No cylinder head as well.

Interview with the founder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf6OH4iVUkY

cmac2012 · #6 03-09-2021, 05:55 AM

Transplanted into a large Ford F150 truck, mated to stock tranny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxON-HIlz5E

oldsinner111 · #7 03-09-2021, 06:26 AM

they said on later info, the big 3 have signed on production

oldsinner111 · #8 03-09-2021, 06:33 AM

I remember 2 stroke bikes as smokey, but never noticed big rigs with 2 stroke v8 diesels.2 strokes always were faster.

Mike D · #9 03-09-2021, 08:57 AM

Detroit Diesel's V series engines are two strokes. Junkers had an aero motive diesel back in the '30's, also a two stroke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_205

The "opposing pistons" are the "new" technology bit. It was used in USN submarines back in the '40's.

Oops, I guess I should have watched the video link before I posted as they covered these.

barry12345 · #10 03-09-2021, 09:00 AM

For years there was a two stroke diesl engine in many heavy trucks. I forgot what they called them but I do remember the noise. Screaming jimmies perhaps.Was ofter mentioned it context with them.Probably gross polluters but perhaps they all were back then.

The germans flew an opposed piston in the same bore diesel engine in some of their bombers. Two crankshafts of course and a supercharger on the back. Complaints where it was slow to respond to throttle change. Yet good on fuel and reliable.

I had always wanted to see one. The oportunity presented itself when I toured the airplane museam in Ottawa Ontario.

I thought but do not hold me to it. About six hundred horsepower. From a practicle perspective I think you cannot spread out the firing impulspulss per cylinder. For example a six piston engine of the type is only saved that way because it is a two stroke.

Since I do not think they could be made as four strokes I have reservations about them reapearing today in numbers. Yet what do I know? Plus even if they could be made four strokes it might be pretty hard to get them to run smooth with so few power strokes per revolution.

So overall I think the current concept of them may never really see much activity. If I remember the rear of the engine was pretty busy. It has been years but I do not remember seeing a starter.

It is also rough being 79 years old this year.I have lived with women so long. I have only a vague memory of when I was free. Even though the mind is not totally in the pits yet.

Diesel911 · #11 03-09-2021, 12:01 PM

Before WWII and during it it some Submarines used Fairbanks Mores (Colt Industries) Opposed Piston Diesel Engines. And when I worked it the 1980's Naval Shipyard there was still some being used as Generator Engines on some of the older ships.

My Diesel Instructor who was in the Coast Guard in WWII said that if you were on a Fairbanks Morse Sub you were in the dock more often for Engine Repairs then if you had a GM Diesel powered Boat. One of the Crankshafts on the Fairbanks Morse some times broke.
The Fairbanks Morse uses one of the pistons as an exhaust valve and the clean are comes in thorough the posts on one end of the Cylinder and goes out the ports on the other end of the Cylinder. The Piston bores are not the same size.

Since the bores are not the same sized one end of the Engine carries more of the load. Hence the Crankshaft breakage issue.
Depending on the size the Cranks were connected by Bevel Gears or a Timing Chain.

I did not pay attention to this in class but it has some sort of Diaphragm or piston type blower on it.

Gray Marine originally made what we call Detroit Diesels. Detroit Diesel bought them out. Detroit Diesels have typical exhaust valves. The older engines had 2 the newer ones have 4 valves per cylinder.

Fresh air comes in through the ports and the exhaust goes out the exhaust valves.

In the case of both engines that is called a uni-flow type system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairbanks-Morse

" In 1939 Fairbanks-Morse developed a marine engine using an unusual opposed piston (O. P.) design, similar in arrangement to a series of German Junkers aircraft diesels.[6] The most common variant for submarines through the 1990s was the 38D 8-1/8 engine, ranging from 4 to 12 cylinders. This engine was delivered to the U.S. Navy in large numbers, often for use in fleet submarines, which used 9- or 10-cylinder versions as main engines in World War."

Frank Reiner · #12 03-09-2021, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Gray Marine originally made what we call Detroit Diesels. Detroit Diesel bought them out. Detroit Diesels have typical exhaust valves. The older engines had 2 the newer ones have 4 valves per cylinder.

From Wikipedia:

"Development
The Gray Marine 6-71 Marine Diesel was developed from the General Motors 6-71 diesel engine that was in use for on-road applications, farm machinery, and other off-road applications. Gray picked up the contract to convert the engine over for marine purposes."

The GM/Detroit Diesel 6-71 design went into production in Jan.1938. Looks like Gray's marinized version came later.

cmac2012 · #13 03-09-2021, 03:08 PM

I had a 2 stoke Suzuki 150cc in about '66 - was a twin, fast for a Jr. High kid. In New Mexico they had a scooter license provision for age 13 and up, was supposed to be 5hp or less. Mine was 16hp. Nobody cared, looked like a kids bike. I had a friend with a Honda 65cc 4 stroke, he was always boasting about how 4 stroke was better in every way. Then one day we swapped bikes, was an eye opener for him. Mine was bigger, and a twin, but it was really responsive, it jumped off the line compared to his Honda.

There's a lot I don't know - I was aware of a history of 2 stroke diesels in trucking but never looked at it - but these guys might be able to make 2 stroke work IMO. It has a turbo and a supercharger. Seems having that compressed air on tap could enable more thorough cleansing of the chamber, after letting out most of the exhaust gas.

I was impressed with the founder, featured in the second vid.

280EZRider · #14 03-09-2021, 03:20 PM

With GM pledging all-electric vehicles by 2035 and another company (I forgot which) pledging by 2030, it would seem that this wing-ding motor is a little too late - at least for cars. It is, however, an interesting concept.

cmac2012 · #15 03-09-2021, 03:31 PM

That's a thought I had. OTOH, Cal is promoting HPR diesel, a 2nd gen bio diesel as part of a zero carbon initiative. A case could be made that diesel of this sort fills a useful niche in the clean air sweepstakes.

OTOH, they could also use that fuel, or the components of it to power electrical generation.

Could be Cal is going this route merely because there are many diesels still on the road. But could well be that diesels will be driven long after the large makers go all electric. I could even see an industry to fit a more production version of this engine into existing vehicles with sound body but dead engine. They were saying this one looks big, is big, because it's a prototype. Makes sense.

Grid viability issues might enter into the elec. car debate. Imagine in Texas they had 98% elec. vehicles when the grid went down.