240 diesel advice please! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jason Beal · #1 07-26-2002, 01:41 AM

Hi, I came across a 1979 manual 240D today on the street. It has 193k on the clock. The guy is asking $650 for it.

Here is a list of things it seems to need on first drive.

Pulls to the right bad.

Seems to bounce a bit around 45ish (You can just look and see it needs tires)

Drives seat sags to the left.

AC doesn't work/ heat does though.

Antenna not working.

Sunroof closes very slowly

My biggest concern is how it starts. Apparently this guy always takes of the air filter housing and uses this starter spray before cranking it over. It seemed to idle just fine, and the transmission shifted just fine. The brakes seemed to have a hard pedal . Suspension seemed firm when I pushed down on it, seemed very firm. Rust is very minimal with a small amount along the bottom and a touch on the hood.

He has had it for about a year and says that the previous owner had it rebuilt and it has about 10k on the new motor. But zilch for paperwork. So I'm a bit leery. However when I looked under the car, there were no oil leaks anywhere, and the underside of the car had no oil at all. Not clean like it had been sprayed off with degreaser, just no oil that I could see.

Would the guy be doing any damage to the car by constantly spraying that stuff in there everyday? Also right when I was done driving it, I turned it off and the started it up and it cranked right up. Then I talked to the guys for about five minutes and when he went to leave he cranked it about five times before it turned over. Glow plugs? Starter? Battery too small?

All gauges work including the clock, and there is some cracking on the dash. Leather (or MB tex?) is in great shape.

I was thinking about having the compression checked tomorrow. But I'm not sure. I could almost bet this guy didn't take great care of it, just by looking at the tires and seeing it pull severely to the right.

What do you guys think? If the compression checked out is 650 a good price for something in this shape? It has current tags on it, so it passed safety and emissions this year. I could wait to find something in better shape, but $650 sure seems cheap. What do you diesel experts out there think? Thanks so much in advance.

Jason

dabenz · #2 07-26-2002, 11:46 AM

If he's using starting fluid on the cold engine in the summer then the timing's off, the fuel delivery's off, or the glow plug system is bad (or he doesn't know how to use it). Starting fluid can be dangerous for any engine if not used properly.

Cranking on a warm engine (5min is still warm) means either the timing's off or the injector tips are leaking which leads to soot builup in the pre-chambers which leads to glow plug failure. Or anything else that it could be on any gas car.

In either case (cold or hot) it could be as simple as an air leak in the fuel system which is overcome by extended cranking. A lot of batteries and starters have been changed in diesel cars because of not changing $20 in fuel lines. Yours may be 20 years old.

To me a compression test doesn't mean much unless it's done right after a valve adjustment and with a leak-down test. Neither can be done without an accomodating owner.

The car pulling to one side is a concern. Four wheel independent suspensions have lots of parts, and finding an alignment shop that can do the alignment properly (after a suspension repair) is getting tougher by the year. If there's rust where these components mount to the unibody then I'd be leery.

The rest of the items on your list are toys, in my opinion. Some, like the A/C, are expensive on any car. Others are as expensive as you want them to be. 23yr old cars generally aren't in as good of shape as 23yr old humans.

The car's monetary value is what the seller and buyer agree to. After the car car changes hands the value is in the eye of the beholder (and the insurance company). For a few people MBs are worse than drugs (time, life, and money consuming). Others recognize one of the world's best cars (220/240) and enjoy the simple challenges of keeping them maintained with their own hands. The latter group also enjoys the lowest cost per mile of any post WW-II car if they keep the car for any length of time.

#3 07-26-2002, 12:32 PM

You really hit all the points...I'd get the compression check, and if the engine's OK, the rest of the stuff should be pretty easy to clean up...and you don't have to do it all at once.

Like the part about no rust. Some concern over your steering...but that might be just tires(?)

Jason Beal · #4 07-26-2002, 01:11 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'm going to pass on this one and wait for something that probably has been better taken care of. Personally I don't think the guy understands how the glow plugs work. He told me that he sprayed it in all the time because " It was a diesel". I guess he thought that's what it needed. I think the smart thing would be to wait. I'm sure you'll all hear from me again. I'm excited about becoming a diesel owner one day. Take care.

Jason

#5 07-26-2002, 01:19 PM

Some peoples only experience with diesel engines may be those in buses and trucks...and starting fluid is often a part of getting these things to turn over as a matter of routine...maybe he is mistakingly using starting fluid without really needing to...or just doesn't understand glowplugs.

dabenz · #6 07-26-2002, 02:23 PM

Thanks Jim B+.

If the unibody's good on that Utah 240D then somebody's going to legally steal a nice car as long as nobody tells the owner how they start.

I figure if I can do that spiel with that result on a 300D (non-turbocharged) with a good engine then I can have it all: an all manual 5-cyl W-115.

Jason Beal · #7 07-26-2002, 04:09 PM

Maybe I will have him take it to my tech afterall. I wish one of you guys lived out here in SLC!

JJ

dabenz · #8 07-26-2002, 05:19 PM

Jason,

I wish I could look at that car too. Don't be symathetic when doing the poke and prod around the suspension/unibody connection points. Also look at the jacking points.

psfred · #9 07-26-2002, 08:04 PM

Jason:

Hard pedal and pulling to the right sounds like stuck calipers, surely from putting new pads on worn out rotors. Jams the pistons in the bores, easy fix if no soring, but you won't be able to tell until you pull them apart.

Brakes will be about $250 per axle with caliper rebuilds if you do all the work. Figure about three hours labor if you don't.

If the pull to the right is suspension, don't buy it, it has been wrecked. This suspension isn't very adjustable. Check the tires for uneven wear, especially on one side of one front tire. It is possible that a mis-adjusted tie rod will make the car pull hard in one direction -- the affected tire will have a "feathered" tread --worn to a taper across the ribs so that one side is higher than the other, giving a sawtooth pattern. This is an easy fix, bent control arms or body isn't.

Hard start needs to have the compression checked -- leaking valves make for very hard starts, and can be just a long overdue adjustment. Leaking fuel lines are a biggie on these cars. Hard start hot is a real problem -- diesels usually start well hot when they are so worn the have to be heated to start them cold.

If this bozo has been shooting ether in there every start he may very well have fried the starter along with the pistons -- ether is VERY BAD for MB diesels, I'm surprised it started at all, usually stalls the starter when it ignites too soon.

Take the oil filler cap off with the engine idling -- lots of vapor (blowby) means skip this one, whatever the price.

Peter

Jason Beal · #10 07-27-2002, 02:27 AM

Thanks for the reply again. The more I look at it, I think I'm going to pass. It looks like it had been hit on the back drivers side and then cheaply covered up. When I looked more closely I could see the (paint) overspray on the window.

I asked the guy again and he said he sprays that in every time before starting it. I was thinking about bringing it to my tech tomorrow, but I think he would tell me more on top of what I'm already suspecting. I hate to see a dork-o like this guy ruining this car. But on the other side of the coin I don't want to empty my savings trying to bring it back to spec. I will wait and be patient. All good things come to those who wait. I just don't see too many diesels for sale here in Salt Lake. Lots in Cali, but not nearly as many here. Thanks guys.

Oh yea I almost forgot, after looking under the car a bit better I noticed rust under it. None in the wheel wells though.

Jason