Re-sleeving 616 240D engine - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

The Warden · #1 09-23-2002, 02:42 AM

Couple of questions...

First, is it possible to resleeve a 616 240D engine? Looking through my Haynes manual, it doesn't mention anything about removing or replacing the cylinder sleeves. I'd be thinking that the engine wasn't sleeved, except that Fastlane sells cylinder sleeves for this engine. I assume that if you do one, you should do them all.

Second, is this something that can be done yourself? Or is a big press needed? What toold would be required (I'm guessing some form of sleeve puller

)?

Third, if the pistons are in good condition, do the pistons need to be replaced, or just the rings, or what?

I'm looking at 240 Ed's car as a possible car for my girlfriend, if doing the engine work won't empty her bank account altogether (parts-wise; I'd do all the work that I'm capable of doing which, with the right tools and this forum, I should be able to)...

Thoughts appreciated. Thanks in advance!

#2 09-23-2002, 06:02 AM

Ok, here goes:

You won't find anything in the Haynes manual because resleeving isn't a DIYer job. The block has to be heated and the sleeves removed with a sleeve puller. While the block is still heated, resinstall the sleeves. Then each cylinder has to be bored to each piston, because the sleeves are not going to be the correct size (cylinder diameter)

If the pistons are good there is no reason you can't reuse them, check psiton diameter at the base of the skirt, and check piston ring to groove gap to make sure they are not worn out. If so then you'll be looking at new pistons and rings.

So those are my thoughts!! I looked into resleeving before I decided to go with a used motor, because if I was going to spend all the money to go that far, I was going to put in new pistons too!

engatwork · #3 09-23-2002, 07:13 AM

Find a good machine shop. If you pull/break down the engine yourself you should be able to do it for under $1000 including parts.

#4 09-23-2002, 07:50 AM

To begin with, the sleeves are available mainly for the situation where a cylinder is scored. That said, there are many who will resleeve and use their original pistons.

As the others said, this is a machine shop job. There is no such thing, however, as a sleeve puller for these sleeves. They are not wet sleeves as in many truck engines. The shop starts welding a bead down the cylinder wall which causes the sleeve to curl so they can withdraw it. At that point they heat the block and/or pack the new sleeve in dry ice, then drive it in place. They then must "top" the sleeve and bore to size.

The decision to be made then, is resleeve or replace the pistons and rebore. The pistons for the four cylinder can be had for a reasonable price. For this reason, your most cost effective method would probably be to purchase pistons in the first oversize and bore the block to fit the pistons.

There are many here who advocate sleeving back to the original bore size and reusing the original pistons. They have evidently had good results doing that. I personally do not like that approach because of the extreme service that diesel pistons must endure. They are highly stressed, so I hate to reuse them. I have in my box of memorabilia a piston that came out of my 240D at 380,000 miles with failed ring lands. I also had broken ring lands on one of the pistons from my daughters 617 engine. I just don't feel comfortable reusing them.

To answer your question further, these are not the most economical engines in the world to rebuild. If you can do it all yourself, however, the 240D engine can be put back in good shape for reasonable money depending on the condition once you get inside. When you start taking apart an engine, you just never know what you're going to find.

In most cases the bottom end on these engines need no attention. Additionally the camshaft and related parts are usually reuasable. But, you never know 'til you open it up.

Good luck,

leathermang · #5 09-23-2002, 08:37 AM

Warden, this is one of those deals where " if you have to ask if you can do it... you Can't "...
One of the drawbacks is that people who know.. ( not me) indicate that the block must be surfaced ( which means it can not be done in the car) after the sleeves are installed... the lip of the sleeve is designed to be higher than the final height it should be... so grinding or milling is used after the sleeve is seated to bring it to the correct height...
Someday I am going to replace the sleeves in my 240 in the car, including grinding in situ... but I have extensive welding,lathe, milling capabilities compared to the normal do it yourselfer... and I am really stubborn....

Ken300D · #6 09-23-2002, 09:06 AM

Unless you like the challenge of an engine rebuild and the feeling you get with a "like new" engine - it may be more cost efficient to find another 240D that is a rust bucket but with a good engine.

Around here and points northward they've been known to completely disintegrate during the course of a single snowstorm, leaving the driver sitting in the middle of the road with a only a running engine and a steering wheel in their hands - just kidding - well mostly.

Ken300D

#7 09-23-2002, 01:44 PM

leathermang,

The top of the sleeves are typically "topped" with the boring bare rather than decking the block. At least this is the only way I've ever seen it done. That is not to say that an enterprising and determined fellow such as yourself couldn't figure out another method.

Have a great day,

leathermang · #8 09-23-2002, 03:11 PM

Larry, That is the direction I was figuring on... a jig which would fit into the sleeve and grind as it turns around... that has a grinding wheel on it and rotates slowly... not a boring bar action, don't think I can make something that accurate.. but a grinder takes off metal very slowly... I figure on taking lots of time, even so it should be faster and less work than pulling everything and taking it to someone else.. ... I am hoping that the deck is straight enough that it does not need any work...

samiam4 · #9 11-23-2002, 07:46 PM

Brandoncrone,

This is wrong on the proceedure for R&R the sleeves. Please refer to the factory manual. Also, you never measure a diesel piston like a gaser... they are different beasts and the bottom is not the widest part.

A supposably good machine shop did that for a friend of mine. They bored it to 0.001 over the bottom of the piston skirts. They wouldn't fit-not even close. Widest point on a 617 piston is toward the top.

Sincerely,

Michael

brandoncrone
Senior Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Saranac Lake, NY, USA
Posts: 119
Ok, here goes:

You won't find anything in the Haynes manual because resleeving isn't a DIYer job. The block has to be heated and the sleeves removed with a sleeve puller. While the block is still heated, resinstall the sleeves. Then each cylinder has to be bored to each piston, because the sleeves are not going to be the correct size (cylinder diameter)

If the pistons are good there is no reason you can't reuse them, check psiton diameter at the base of the skirt, and check piston ring to groove gap to make sure they are not worn out. If so then you'll be looking at new pistons and rings.

So those are my thoughts!! I looked into resleeving before I decided to go with a used motor, because if I was going to spend all the money to go that far, I was going to put in new pistons too!

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psfred · #10 11-23-2002, 08:01 PM

Sleeves can, according to the manual, be simply driven out with the correct tool. Certainly, a weld bead down the side will shrink them so that the will almost fall out by themselves.

Re-boring to the next size is definitely an option, just remember a piston costs about $100 with rings, and the sleeve is only 30, plus 30 to install and bore if you take the old ones out yourself.....

Find a good machine shop and talk to them. They can give you the proper cost figures and help you take the correct path.

If you either bore and use new pistons, or re-use good pistons and resleeve, you end up with a new engine, for all intents and purposes. Plan on a valve job, no reason to put a flaky head on a good block....

Peter

leathermang · #11 11-24-2002, 09:15 AM

It would be very interesting to know where that idea that a MB block had to be heated to install the new piston sleeves came from ....

It certainly did not come from the MB manual...

Peter is right on the mark on this... the manual even shows a " make it yourself " tool to " hammer or press" the sleeves OUT and IN...

Having tried slide hammers before I will be using hydraulic power to PULL them out....

But they say they can be hammered in...even describing that one should wait " 7 seconds " for the metal to relax ( or look the other direction

) before hitting the " setting " blows....

I will be using dry ice to shrink my sleeves both coming out and going in ....would hate to weld a sleeve to the block.. then what would I do ?

samiam4 · #12 11-24-2002, 11:01 AM

I the welding idea I'm sure is good. The bead when it cools, shrinks pulling the metal inward. It would be much easier.

I think installing, you want to make sure the new sleeves are seated. Let them rest and double check.

For boring the new cylinders, the Stu Ritter advice was tell them what diameter to bore to, don't bring them the pistons. These guys that do chevys all day will measure the diesel piston at the wrong place, then bore to the wrong size.

Remember, the piston/cylinder wall clearance is 0.0007-0.0015 inch new(617.912). Many of the machine shops bore everything to 0.001 per inch of bore size. So, they will be 0.0035+ inches.

Michael

Stevo · #13 11-25-2002, 08:26 PM

Warden

I am still in the process of rebuilding a "80' 616, slowed down but still underway with the project. I bought new over size pistons with rings for a little over $300.00 and sleeves for about $20.00 ea. Had to have the crank reground and a couple of new rods which meant everything had to be balanced but without that crank related stuff it would not have been very costly. I would not reuse the pistons unless I was really short of cashola though.

t walgamuth · #14 02-05-2009, 06:16 AM

My favorite machinist has a large hydraulic press which I have personally used to push out the liners on several of these engines. The stress is incredible but no heat or cold was used. Before installing the new liners, though we put them in the refrigerator.

After they are installed he decks the block to make it square to the crank (they twist with use) and then bores them close to the final size but hones them to the correct tightness, using the pistons as the guide to how much to hone it.

Three out of four times we have reused the pistons after he checks them for wear in the critical land area.

Larry's point about the pistons failing at "only" 380K miles is a good one and I will keep that in mind if or when I rebuild another 616 617 engine.

Novice · #15 02-05-2009, 09:17 AM

Get the specks and rent a inside diameter micrometer. If its not out bad trying a honing tool. Check for hair line cracks. Otherwise pulling the engine and bringing it to the machine shop is the only other way. Which would be a budget buster for me. I did a perkins sailboat diesel sleeve removal and replacement once but that was in a shop with all the right tools and press.
I guess its a balence between budget and practicality. So check them out they may be reusable.