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  #1  
Old 09-26-2002, 05:31 PM
Alan S's Avatar
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1st Minnesota winter for 300D

This will be my california 300d's first real winter, and I have a few questions.

1) Were these cars factory rust-proofed? I have waxed the body a couple of times to build up layers of wax, but I'm also concerned with the under-carriage.

2) Having never used a block heater, how long should I leave her plugged in if parking outside. I hope the answer is all night long, because I wouldn't feel like waking up in the early hours to plug her in.

3)What weight of oil should I use? Keep in mind I commute to Rochester 15 times a month for a total of about 2500 highway miles a month. Also, economicaly speaking, it would be awfuly rich for me to switch to synthetic for I change the oil every 3000 miles or about every month and a half. I currently use 15-40, and the car consumes a quart every 2500 miles.

Thanks for reading this long winded post, but I kind of want to get an idea what I'm in store for this winter. Al

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1997 E-320
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2002, 05:47 PM
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Alan, there is a place on the corner of South Robert and Wentworth called J Brenna's rustproofing. He will take your car for a day, put it on the hoist, powerclean the underside, and spray tarry rustproofing stuff all over the bottom and up into everywhere he can get (fenders etc.). I cost me about $150 two years ago. It didn't hurt, I hope that it did a lot of good. No rust visible, but I would not be able to see it under all the tar anyway.

My block heater seems to be stock (old), it takes about 2 hrs to make a difference, and 5 hours to make the car start like it does in the summer when it is below 10 degrees out.

I just thin my oil out with a quart or three of synthetic in the dead of winter- if you can always plug it in or go out and warm it up over lunch you should be able to get away with the lower amount or none. Good luck, Andy
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2002, 07:07 PM
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Leaving the block heater plugged in all night doesn't hurt anything - except raising your electric bill parasitically. I plug mine in now because I need the IP timing adjusted and it just starts easier (not because its cold), and leave it in all night regularly.

The trade-off with the synthetic cost moraine, is signifigantly extended service intervals. You could easily run a good diesel-grade synthetic for 6000+ mi intervals with a filter change in the middle. But running it that long between changes is an adjustment in comfort level if you're used to the 3k or 3-month routine.

Regards,
- Ryan
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2002, 07:33 PM
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winter service

alan,

for my car if temp is around say 13-25 deg F at night i would plug in about 2 hours before i need to start in the morning. usually after the initial run of the day and temps still below freezing it would be good to go all day with no block heating. if overnight temp is forecast to be 12-13 deg F or below i leave the block heater on all night. either way it starts right up + gets great heat quickly this way!

anything above 25 deg F i don't use the block heater

should mention the glow plug system works properly.

i use a good diesel rated 15-40 oil all year round.


bob
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2002, 07:39 PM
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Alan,

I'm in Grand Rapids, MI and we get pretty cold here but not quite as bad as you do.
I plug three of mine in every night on a timer as someone previously mentioned. Never worried about it until I got four of these beasts. Three hours in the garage on the plug gets it comparable to a summer start with instant heat.
I also plug them in at work (outside) with good results but not as good as the garage because of wind.
Last winter I went to synthetic (Rotella 5w40) for the dead of the winter months (Dec-Feb). This made a significant difference when caught away from a plug. Normally I'm a 15w40 user with the exception of those three months.
I have been very encouraged by these machines in the cold up here. They start much better at zero than my Volvo diesel did. Mine are good compression engines however and don't use much oil.

Best of luck,

Don
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2002, 07:41 PM
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Alan,

I forgot to mention that Walmart has been running a long sale on Synthetic Rotella 5w40. Its been $12.83 per gallon around here forever (couple of months). This is only double the normal cost and makes it more of a consideration for me.

Don
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DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2002, 12:53 AM
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My timer is an outdoor "swimming pool pump" type that I bought at Menards. Rated for -40F and three pronged with a rain cover. For the car I'd plug it in for an hour down to 30F, two hours down to 15F, four hours down to 0F, then six hours. All for frost plug heater and car outside all night.

A good option for us is an oil pan heater. Size of a kitchen hot pad and glued onto bottom of oil pan. Not sure of twin cities distributers, but a guy in Chetek, WI sells a good one. Heating the oil cuts the frost plug heater time in half.

I forgot: NOW is a good time to change fuel filter. Keep a spare in the trunk. Your filter will start to gel at 15F with untreated #2 so you have a month to figure out your winter fuel game plan.
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  #8  
Old 09-27-2002, 06:57 AM
brandoncrone
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Just one more person to tell you.....

I usually jsut leave mine plugged in all night, its easier, and besides, the block heater only draws around 250watts, so its like leaving 3 lights on in your house all night. As far as the oil goes, I run 15W-40 all year, and it gets below -20 Deg F here and I never have a problem even when I am not near a plug, just have to give her a little throttle to help her get going!! Low weight Diesel engine oil is scarce here in the mountains.....Oh, use a non-gelling agent in your fuel!!!
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  #9  
Old 09-27-2002, 11:37 AM
Fimum Fit
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Well, I was raised up by Little Falls, Minnesota

just a few miles from Charlie Lindbergh's farm, and a little ways south of Brainerd (remember the movie _Fargo_?), and there is a major climatological boundary in the 150 miles between there and the much warmer area (!) you'll be in, but I remember well the block heater ritual on our cars and the big Minneapolis-Moline diesel tractor with the snowplow in the shed. The car and the pick-up were always both Ford gas-burners but had 750 or 1000 watt tank (spliced into a heater hose) or block heaters with automatic thermostats and when both of them were plugged in, they kept the interior of the garage, which was an insulated addition on the northwest (windward in a blizzard) side of the house above freezing even when it was below zero outside -- esentially we were using the vehicles' motors as space heater radiators. That made everything easy to start and comfy to drive off in, and probably didn't raise the overall utility bill all that much because it protected the house walls from some radiant losses. Besides, farmers were allowed separate electric meters with cheaper rates for such essential business uses in those days.

The big M-M tractor was in an insulated machine shed with woodstove available, and had a huge 1750 watt, 220 volt tank heater with its own pulse-type circulating pump and thermostat, and that also kept the whole shed quite warm, in spite of there being a lot of air leaks around the big door, etc. The tractor was straight ether starting, no glowplugs, but it was never a problem to get it running when needed -- the bigger problem was busting through the snowbank which formed in front of the door without sliding sideways and damaging the building.

At St. Cloud State College and many shopping center and factory parking lots up there they have long had parking meters with an extra coin slot and a plug socket so that for an extra quarter you can get two hours of heat from your block heater!

One of my uncles was for 50 years or so one of the township snowplow operators, and I never heard of him ever having any trouble starting his big CAT 12E grader, either. On the other hand, when the local high school switched to diesel school buses, they eventually had to build a garage, but only because the kids would sneak out late at night and unplug the block heater extension cords when the buses were parked out of doors.

Last edited by Fimum Fit; 09-27-2002 at 08:29 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-27-2002, 12:36 PM
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Thanks for all the replies, I will swing by J. Brenna's and see what they have to offer. I didn't realize you could mix synthetic with non-synthetic, I'll look into that option. If I can run synthetic for 6000 miles between oil changes, then that might be an option to look into as well. I did see the Rotella synthetic at wallmart for around $12 a gallon, maybe next oil change. I think I'll just plug her in all night, that seems to be a safe way to go, so far I haven't had to. Thanks again for the help, and chime in if you've got some more winter info. Al
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  #11  
Old 09-27-2002, 01:25 PM
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Block heater

Forget the timer, just plug it in when you get home from work in the evening and forget about it until morning.
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2002, 03:16 PM
Fimum Fit
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Addendum

Note to what Aaron said: if the heater has an integral thermostat, as many of the bigger ones do, then it can save money to plug it in and leave it in as soon as you get home, even over a timer, because it takes less electricity to maintain a steady 100F (typical temp. for a tank heater thermostat) all night than to raise 400-500 pounds of metal and liquids from 10F to 100F in a few hours.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2002, 12:10 AM
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Alan - I think you will like your 300D in Minnesota. I ran three of them over the years - my last one, an 83 was certainly the best. My experience:

Rust proofing: From around 83 on, the factory did an inside and outside rustproofing. The inside is an amber colored semi-solidified coating, the external is a heavy black undercoating. You could do nothing and be fine in Minnesota for years - especially if you get into the habit of washing the car once a week in winter months. Flushing the underside and redoing the undercoating cannot hurt at all.

Block Heater and winter tips: The MB block heater is a low-wattage type (I'm estimating 500 watt) that I plugged in every night when I pulled in and unplugged when driving out in the morning. I also plugged in at work during the day when it would sit for 4 or more hours. For the occasional overnight on the road when I didn't have access to a plug in, I carried two keys and let it idle all night. I estimated it took 1 1/2 gal of fuel to idle for 8 hours - a small cost for a great comfort and wow, how nice to come out to a warm car in the morning. These diesels 'cool down' when idling, sort of like going to sleep. Leaving it unplugged for short trips during the day is no problem. The colder it is the shorter the time that it will comfortably re-start with no plugging in. i.e. I could drive to a store when it's 0 degrees F and have it pop right off after 1 hour. If you get stuck with no plug in and the engine got really cold, double glowing the glow plugs definately helps starting.

Oil: My experience, these older diesels don't seem to respond to synthetic oil like newer (TDI) diesels or gas engines. I purchased my 83 with 212k miles where the previous owner used straight 40 wt. diesel oil in the summer, straight 10W wt. diesel oil in the winter and the owner reported the car used zero oil. I switched to using 15W-40 Rotella T dino oil in the summer, 10W-30 Rotella T dino oil in the winter. (10W-30 Rotella T is available by the case at Hallman Oil in St. Paul) When I sold the car with 320k miles, it still used zero oil between my 2500 mile changes. If you keep the car plugged in when the ambient temp. drops below 32 degrees F or so, you could run 15W-40 year round. These engines love that stuff and have heavy duty starting systems that don't seem to know the difference. I tried a synthetic Delvac 1 oil one time and could tell no difference in this vehicle. I settled in to using the lower cost Rotella T dino oil and doing more frequent change intervals.

Fuel: In the past, I ran any winter blended diesel that all self serve stations stock in winter months. If the ambient temp was heading for 0 degrees F and below for an extended time, I would head for a straight number 1 pump and put in a half tank or more of that to buy me insurance against gelling. Also, it helps to start each winter season with fresh fuel finters. Dirty filters accelerate plugging when fuel gels. I would also add a diesel anti-gel additive (like Power Service - available at all truck stops) to every other fill or so during winter months. Nowdays, a number of Minnesota stations stock 'Arctic Diesel' which is a high cetane, winter specific diesel. Check www.premiumdiesel.com for a listing of stations that stock Arctic. I use this exclusively now in the winter months in my VW Beetle TDI diesel.

One last recommendation: Visit and get to know Warner Huber in Golden Valley. He owns Huber Imported Autos and I believe is one of the most knowledgeable technicians around for 123 diesels. He has serviced all my MBs for about 8 years now and he knows how to keep the older MBs running without breaking the bank!

Regards,

Wayne
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2002, 01:57 PM
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Wayne, all I can say is "Wow"!, you answered all the questions I had, and with great detail. Thank you for your time and experiences. I have had zero problems this winter so far, and it's gotten pretty cold! I just leave her plugged in if its parked outside, and unplugged if in the garage. I always let her glow 5 seconds after the light goes out, and it fires right up. I have been washing her once a week, and she looks great. I decided to try synthetic rotella for the winter, primarely to extend my oil change to maybe 7-8k miles. I know it sounds like a lot, but I drive all highway miles, Inver Grove Heights to Rochester. So I figure it should be ok. The only gripe I have had is my heat, which I'm pretty sure is the monovalve. I get a lot of heat if its idling, but little hot air when I'm on the highway. I plan on addressing that next week.
So far, I've been fortunate in doing all the work myself, big thanks to this board! However, the front is starting to get a little play, so I imagine I would need a front end job sometime next year. I will keep Huber in mind. Thanks again, and stay warm. Al
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2002, 02:04 PM
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Arrow question about block heater

alan / wayne

do you guys know for sure if the MB block heater has a thermostat in it?


as we don't get so frigid here in CT as you guys do i'm plugging in these days for a couple of hours before i need to start the car, with great results.
i used to plug in overnight as well but i can't tell the difference in starting.
i really don't want to waste electricity needlessly.

thanks/bob

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