300 D won't make power and Black smoke: - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 01-31-2003, 11:59 PM

Timing Chain rails broke,chain broke,cam broke,cam bearings broke,2 valves bent.
This is on a 84' 300d turbo.
Pulled head, valve job done {no milling on head} new valves for the one's that were bent,new cam,new cam bearings new chain and all chain rails .Reassebled set cam on mark,timed IP pump by Baylor method,drip method, and bubble method. The last seamed to work the best.
Was pure heck getting it started with all the air in lines.
So now after checking the timing and IP Timing over 6 times to make sure it is right. It has no power and smoke black as coal.
Tested compression and all was over 225 lb.
Checked ALDA it is working fine.
Larry Bible or anyone any suggestions.
Thanks in advance.
Charlie

leathermang · #2 02-01-2003, 09:01 PM

Charlie, you need to check that compression again.. and the valve timing... I think that about 310 psi is the Lower limit on the engine.. so if yours is legitamately at 210 you have a real internal problem...
I assume when the head was off that the precombustion chambers were checked for cleanlyness ?

mechmagcn · #3 02-01-2003, 10:38 PM

Low power & lots of black smoke sounds like loss of turbo boost. Look for loose connections, or worse, bad turbo.
Hope this helps, Jeff

leathermang · #4 02-01-2003, 10:47 PM

Could the Turbo be completely frozen ?
How would that effect the compression readings ?
It would sure produce some kinds of obstruction in both intake and exhaust.... never heard of it.. but It could happen I guess...

mechmagcn · #5 02-01-2003, 10:56 PM

Turbo locked up could cause vacuum in intake, causing low compresion reading.

Jeff

#6 03-28-2003, 09:36 PM

Here is the latest.
Got another 84 300d just like the problem child.
Took mirrow and looked at rear of cam shaft and it has different number than the factory number, the correct number is { 11 }. Check this and we were give the wrong part by the parts house.
So we are changing the cam. I pray this fixes my problem.
I am sure none of you ever get the wrong parts. They save that for me.
Charlie

gsxr · #7 03-28-2003, 10:05 PM

Hopefull the cam does the trick. If not:

It ain't the turbo - trust me. I bought my 1984 300D with a dead turbo (not knowing it was dead!). The car can run just fine, meaning ZERO smoke, with a dead turbocharger. Of course with no boost the power above ~2500rpm is pretty lethargic, but it will be smoke-free.

If you have massive smoking, you have too much fuel going in and/or not enough pressure to burn the fuel present. Your compression numbers were EXTREMELY low. That could be due to the camshaft issue of course. They should be more like 350-450psi. I'd double-check the valve adjustment as well.

#8 03-28-2003, 10:19 PM

On e the "new 84" my number are as follow
#1 440
#2 410
#3 410
#4 410
#5 410

so I took 410 from 440 and got 30 so that is less than 10% so I was happy guy.
The turbo has boost gauge and she is putting out.
I just hope it is the cam. Will know by monday.
Charlie

gsxr · #9 03-28-2003, 10:26 PM

Excellent, 400+ all around is great. Now it's down to injection pump and/or timing, IMO. Black smoke comes from too much fuel and/or not enough air (I'm assuming your air filter is clean, etc.)

#10 03-29-2003, 01:32 AM

Ill recommend you check your injection timing
even trying to move the pump a little in both direction to see if you can come up with the correct timing.. thats how i did the ip timing on my car.. That degree crap they put in the books is bull its all in the feeling and the noise of the engine. If its too white you are injecting too late if its white injection is too early.

I set up the IP on my car by sound and feel of the engine
Got alot of power and NO smoke whatsoever

its a 190D 2.5 1986

gsxr · #11 03-29-2003, 11:06 AM

Uh, Sport, why do it by "feel" when you can buy the proper tool for $25 from Mercedes (IP lock pin) and set it accurately? Feel has nothing to do with it. The tool works on all OM60x engines including your 2.5.

Charlie, the same tool works for your '84 as well, I have the same car and adjusted mine too. It was 2 degrees retarded but I didn't SEE, FEEL, or measure any difference when I set it to specification. The 60x engines are more sensitive, IMO, because on both my 87's I saw a measurable increase in MPG by advancing the timing 1 degree from spec (from 15 to 14 ATDC). Note that the RIV timing spec of 15ATDC is very different than the "wet" spec of 24 BTDC! I assume you set yours to 24BTDC...?

Regards,

#12 03-29-2003, 02:06 PM

Would you have the number for the IP pump tool to set timing?
Hell $25 more to Mercedes is no big deal. When it set's it right the first time.
Thanks you.
Charlie

psfred · #13 03-29-2003, 02:25 PM

Charlie:

Make sure your EGR valve isn't stuck open or improperly connected, causing it to stay open. The one on the Volvo stuck, caused SERIOUS lack of power (ie, no acceleration) and unbelieveable smoke -- cars behind vanished in it!

Peter

gsxr · #14 03-29-2003, 03:31 PM

Definitely check the EGR! About the lock pin, the part number is 601-589-05-21-00. Dealer cost is ~$21, plus whatever markup they feel like gouging you with. Rusty should be able to get it for under $30 if you can't find it elsewhere at a decent price (will take 7-10 days, special order). Here are some notes from emails I sent to other people regarding the tool:

==============

The lock pin was not intended to be used to set the timing. MB has a static RIV tester ("A-B" light box) which is designed for that purpose, as explained in the service manual. It is a nifty tool but most folks won't want to pony up the ~$250 to buy it.

The IP lock pin, which is a mere $25-$30, can be used in place of that. It takes longer to set the timing but it does work, although the procedure is NOT in the manual. Basically you creep the crank up to 15 ATDC while trying to feel when the lock engages. When it does, read the number off the crank. If it's not where you want it, rotate the pump to adjust and repeat at least twice to confirm the new setting. I have found that setting to the advanced side of spec (to 14 instead of 15 ATDC) provides a small but repeatable increase in MPG (on 60x engines anyway).

Warning: DO NOT rotate the crank... OR adjust the pump by rotating it... while the lock pin is in place! You WILL break something expensive. (The IP!) Remove the lock before turning ANYTHING.

For OM617 engines, it's a real pain to adjust the pump... there is no adjusting mechanism (turnbuckle) to rotate it like on the OM60x. You'll need to loosen all 4 mounting bolts (3 front, 1 rear), all 5 injector lines, and muscle it one way or the other. Note: When you remove the RIV plug on the side of the IP, roughly above the left engine shock, it will dump a pint of oil out! One last tip: Use the power steering pulley for large engine rotations, and the alternator pulley for small ones - the p/s would jump forward in 1-2 degree increments no matter how careful I was, but the alternator worked great. (On an OM60x, pull the fan clutch and rotate from the crank bolt.)

HTH,

#15 03-31-2003, 10:50 PM

With the valves adjusted. Right Cam in 84' 300D.
Compression is 410 on all five.
Will finish up and fire it up tomorrow.
Was really happy to see that compression.
Charlie