123 vs. SUV in snow - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 02-18-2003, 02:47 PM

We had a really bad snowstorm in Richmond this past weekend as most of you might already know from watching the news. I'm proud to say that my 123 performed quite well on the ice/snow (with the help of new Michellin tires). I saw several SUVs which pulled onto the emergency lane on the interstate. The rest I just whizzed by. The car fishtailed some at higher speeds as would be expected but overall performed great. I drove every day and never got stuck unlike so many other people. I just laugh at people who think you need these crappy SUVs to get around in the snow and when it actually snows they are either too scared to drive or end up in the ditch.

Scott

jas2wa · #2 02-18-2003, 03:44 PM

Scott-

I'm in Charlottesville, a little west, actually, and we got nailed too. My 82 300D sedan stayed parked (needs new brakes, especially calipers, which are frozen- no fun on snow), but the 84 300TD did great! I am continually amazed at how that car does in snow and ice. I filled the tank for a bit of extra weight, and I think the weight distribution of the wagon really helps, too. On 64, passed all kinds of flipped over SUVs...
I just need a little momentum to get it up our driveway when there is 6 or so inches, but it gets there- manuvered it around the driveway easier than one of my housemate's front wheel drive Nissan. Very cool, indeed.

-Justin (jas2wa)

dpbrowne · #3 02-18-2003, 03:45 PM

I am wondering how bad a driver I am. My 1983 300SD seems to be horrible in the snow. I had to break down and take the Ford pick-up the other day. Am I the only one having problems? Do I need driving lessons?

jas2wa · #4 02-18-2003, 04:01 PM

Well, the driver certainly does have much to do with how these cars go in the snow- I grew up in MA, was driving around the yard and plowing snow with a 1 ton pick up at the age of about 12, so I learned early on how to deal with a car on snow, ice, and etc. Admittedly, I am a bit out of practice, having been in VA for 4 years now. But, I can get in the car and make it do what I want, while my housemate, from Arkansas, has much more trouble. It is all about preventing wheelspin in these cars. Once the wheels spin, it's over- have to keep out of the turbo boost, and use very light throttle- as such, the TD will climb over anything, and up very steep, snow-covered hills, much to most people's amazement.
My 81 300SD was not quite as good (less rearward weight bias maybe?) but I did once get it up and over a mountain pass that had 18-wheelers stuck. Just used first gear, and some makeshift traction control- light pressure on the emergency brake to keep the rear wheels from spinning into oblivion-
I forgot how much fun winter driving is...

-JAS

Holson Adi · #5 02-18-2003, 05:18 PM

Yeah the W123 is indeed surprisingly good in the snow. I don't drive it as much this year. However last year and when I do this year it handles a lot of snow without a problem.

The 617 doesn't make much power either, which I believe contributes to the fact that it's easy to control in the snow.

The ground clearance must also help!

I was watching these "pimped out" lowered rice rockets spinning their wheels yesterday :p they could barely move anywhere before the roads were salted.

Last year I had Michelin Rainforce MX4s but last year's winter felt like summer

This year I have Michelin MXV4's which probably aren't as great in the snow but it still moves just fine!

I tried my friend's BMW and Audi... oh boy... I'd rather drive the W123 in the snow. The Audi is Quattro too.

Aaron · #6 02-19-2003, 12:33 AM

I push the 300SD aside during heavy snow and use the ML or the 420SEL (good because of ABS). Never liked the 300SD in the winter. I will admit though, that my W116 300SD (1980) was AWESOME in Cleveland winters. I had that car for five years and it didn't get stuck ONCE! Here in Cincinnati we tend to get bad ice storms so nothing really will go far when it's slick. The funniest part is that since Cincinnati has relatively mild winters, these people freak out when there are 2" of snow on the ground! Glad I grew up in Cleveland!

car54 · #7 02-19-2003, 01:08 AM

My 300D wouldnt move in the snow, probably because up here we got snow deeper than the front bumper of the car, so driving was out of the question until the plows made it thru.

#8 02-19-2003, 01:50 PM

Altho I don't like actually driving my 240D in the snow, was VERY pleased with the yeoman service she gave this morning after being snowed in at a friend's 50 miles from home. Very gentle rocking and low diesel torque pulled her out of a snowbank like an old Cunard (OK, North German Lloyd)liner leaving a North River pier. On I-95 south saw dozens of new cars (esp one Infiniti) with "plastic" bumpers that won't be cheap to repair. As I got near to work, saw two other 123's I've not spied in the neighborhood before.

In a John O'Hara short story, he writes of a scene in the '20s during a rural Pennsylvania blizzard where big Packard touring cars belonging to the coal companies pull into town, reminding the narrator of the scenes on railroad calendars of steam engines covered with ice and frost punching through drifts at the head of the 20th Century or The Empire Builder. Those days aren't QUITE dead yet!

jas2wa · #9 02-19-2003, 01:53 PM

Nice imagery!

Along those lines, I always thought of the front end of my 81 300SD (126) as very locomotive-like, with its slightly pointy nose and big gray bumper, kind of like a cow-catcher...

JAS

#10 02-19-2003, 02:03 PM

In snow or on ice, tires are Everything!

I suspect that many of those wayside SUV's were on worn tires. Dumb. Defeats the point of having one doesn't it? Having driven 28 winters in mountainous terrain, I learned the hard way not to fool around with crappy tires.

gsamuelson · #11 02-19-2003, 02:35 PM

Perhaps you should refrase that to crappy SUV drivers, or SUVs with crappy tires. Generalities are a dangerous thing to make and give the perception of arrogance, ignorance and perhaps some envy.

If you think your rear 2 wheel drive car will go as far as a 4 wheel drive vehicle with a good experienced driver and decent tires you are dreaming and I am the one laughing! Of course, folks in your part of the world probably don't have much experience in tough winter driving conditions and would not fare well with any type of vehcile.

stephenson · #12 02-19-2003, 03:29 PM

Easy now ... while rear wheel drive diesels seem to do better than RWD gas engine cars (likely the lack of power and drivers who are more in tune with their cars), comparing any RWD car to a 4WD or AWD is a bit much.

In fact, comparing light weight 4/AWD with heavy 4/AWD is likely to yield factual differences, too.

I have all three ... with 6 inches of unplowed snow I can use the RWD diesel, with 12 inches of unplowed snow I can use the Explorer ... the Suburban does pretty well in 15-18 inches.

Folks off the road are there because their judgment does not match their car's capabilities ....

Old saying in Maine was - "Four Wheel Drive Doesn't Mean Four Wheel Stop."

Another "extension" for ya ... almost any front wheel drive car will outperform almost any rear wheel drive car ... not just weight over the wheel issue, it is also related to pulling with wheels turned ...

300SDog · #13 02-19-2003, 03:53 PM

It's the gearbox.... and how you use it.

My standard 240D in 1st gear (walking speed) will outpull any SUV with much higher gear ratio that spins tires.

Also a question of torque and low rpm power band..... this is where diesels excel. You just dont get that kind of traction from *any* gasoline engine that must be revved beyond 2000 rpm to get any power at all.

During winter time i like to carry 30' of heavy tow rope.... on more than 1 occasion, i've pulled SUV's out of ditches where one or more of their wheels slid into a ditch.

When living in Nederlands, Colorado in the late 1970's.... there were 2 highly prized Winter vehicles - an ordinary VW beetle and any Mercedes diesel. These cars truly outperformed 4x4 trucks, on account of their low end, high-torque performance and general roadworthiness....... ever seen an SUV go into a 4 wheel skid while taking a turn too fast? It happens all the time, as the bulky beast builds sideways momentum that Merc diesel does not.

stephenson · #14 02-19-2003, 04:05 PM

dd,

Can't express how much I disagree, based on my experience!

Have had and used 300D, 300TD, Honda Accord, 300CD, VW bug, VW Rabbit, Audi Fox Wagon, Dodge Minivan, Suburban, Explorer, and 350SDL - few others, but this covers the turf, I think. Bottom line - I used the following response to a friend who was touting his 240 Volvo in 1978 as being great in the snow ... "It has the same general handling characteristics as a 1972 Nova - too much marketing hype."

Bug was nearly useless (not to mentioned real, real COLD); diesels OK, but not impressive; Rabbit, Fox and minivan were very, very good (approaching 4wd); Explorer OK for 4WD, Suburban great for 4WD ... weight over the rear wheels helps a lot, but is still not a substitute for pulling (with wheels pointed in the right direction) and pushing at the same time.

I didn't include the 20,000 SHP P-3 all terrain and air pig maneuver craft in the list .... was real good, except ya had to dig the mainmounts out and clear snow to keep props from hitting it .... on ice at 100 knots, it was way cool - lots of differential power!

#15 02-19-2003, 04:17 PM

High torque is the enemy when driving on slippery surfaces. The last thing you need is excessive power to facilitate wheelspin when accelerating on an icy surface. Think of all the automatic transmissions that have a "winter" mode which defaults to a second-gear start. The reason for this is to dampen the engine torque through higher gearing which allows a more gradual application of power.