Tranny Fluid Change - Let Jiffy Lube Do It? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 04-12-2003, 09:55 AM

Just bought a 1984 300D Turbo with 280,000 miles. Car looks like it has been very well maintained, however, I have no records as to whether tranny fluid was ever changed. I drove it about 100 miles yesterday. In the morning, I experienced lots of "flaring" and hard shifts. I was hard pressed to get it over 45 mph with the pedal to the metal! In the afternoon, it seemed like a different car. I was cruizin' up Rt. 95 at 65 plus. The tranny fluid is pinkish red as I believe it should be. Should I take it to Jiffy Lube and have them perform the complete fluid flush and replace or should I leave well enough alone? The car hadn't been driven in a about month before I bought it.

leathermang · #2 04-12-2003, 10:03 AM

I think those types of places, from many many accounts , are in too much rush to be counted on...
If you read alot on here after doing some good searches, or get a shop manual... you will know enough to do it yourself,,, or better yet, supervise some teenager in the neighborhood doing it correctly....
The last time my father took a car to one of those places... the oil plug fell out about twenty miles away... he shut down fast and called me.. so it did not hurt anything.... but he learned a lesson...

I am a big fan of Trans-X for keeping varnish from building up or cleaning it prior to changing out the fluid...
So I would take out enough transfluid ( two quarts ) and put two quarts of trans-x into your car. That may fix the problem by itself, if not it will dissolve varnish starting to accumulate... and it will leave the area when you change fluids.... Drive it at least 100 miles before the change.. give it time to work.....
I had a Ramber once that I bought for a song because the ONLY gear it had was second..... A mechanic friend suggested this stuff.. and one can FIXED it totally... I drove that car for 5 years... LOL... and since it had been designed by Pinninfarina... just like Mercedes.... I put a MB grille on the front.... LOL.. and many people thought it was a MB....

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=406203&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

240-diesel · #3 04-12-2003, 10:15 AM

I agree, do it yourself is my motto, Back when I bought my 240 d it had 223,000 miles on it and know record of a tranny fluid change , So I changed all of the fluids in the vehicle taking no chances I enjoy doing it myself anyway. Good luck .

BIGRED · #4 04-12-2003, 10:20 AM

I think like all places it depends on the people that work there. Sometimes a Jiffy lube has a fellow or two that really care about cars but can you find a location like that and find a time when they are not super busy. I had such an experience with one of my other cars (not MB).

Those shifting issues will most likley not change because of a trans fluid change. MB transmissions shift harder than USA products and the flaring is a sign that there is some adjustments required. I just went through the process myself.

Are you into working on the car yourself? Then there is lots of information here to help you. This catagory is me after 20 plus years of not working on a car, I am enjoying the pride that comes with doing it right. Something about at least the 123's, they have soul, they have a spirit, they have something that I can't explain having owned many cars all new from vettes to SL's Cads to Camaro's and 4X4's. It may sound strange but it seems that a relationship develops in some odd way.

Not interested in working on it? Find a trans shop that really knows MB trans and have then service and adjust it.

Good luck and enjoy it.
Don

Palangi · #5 04-12-2003, 10:26 AM

To ge all the old fluid out, the torque convertor should be drained. This involves cranking the engine around by hand until the torque convertor drain comes into view. You would also want to replace the filter, gasket, and both drain plug washers. I don't believe you should trust a quick lube place to do this job properly. I doubt if they would do any damage, but they probably wouldn't get all the old fluid out. Also, good chance they will overfill it.

#6 04-12-2003, 11:02 AM

Thanks to all of you who replied so promptly to my post! This is a great forum!

I should have been more specific regarding Jiffy Lube. They now use a technology whereby they disconnect the transmission cooling lines and connect them to a machine with two large plexiglas cylinders. One cylinder pulls a vacuum and draws out the old fluid, while the other cylinder is full of new fluid and simultaneously replaces the old fluid through the other transmission cooling line. Have any of you ever used one of those two part epoxies with the two parallel cylinders and the plunger? It's the same concept except that one cylinder is pulling, while the other pushes!

I am more than willing to tackle this myself, however, I think most of you were thinking that Jiffy Lube would drop the pan and do things as we would in our driveways.

I'm not sure if the machine they use also flushes fluid out of the torque convertor, however, it would seem like it would have to.

Any more thoughts?

P.E.Haiges · #7 04-12-2003, 11:19 AM

First,

How do they change the filter in the transmission with their push pull machine?

I think their machine is just to save them time and the trouble of removing the transmission pan and has no advantages to you or your transmission.

Jiffy Lube doesn't charge much for their services so they have to make up for it in little time expended per vehicle, high volume and low pay for their so called mechaincs.

You might ask them what is the torque spec on the MB transmission bolts and if they don't know, if they can look it up. If the bolts are torqued too tight, the rubber gasket can be damaged.

P E H

leathermang · #8 04-12-2003, 11:21 AM

I do not think that that method will drain and refill the torque converter.....the physics are not there for a closed container.. that is why they had to put the drain plug on it...
Since we do not know the cause for sure of your shifting problem.... to rule out the deposition of varnish from the old trans fluid is premature...
I still recommend... no matter what else you decide.... that you put Trans-X into it for a reasonable period of use... if you read the search results I posted you will see that I am not the only one with praise for Trans-X....
How would they change the filter in the trans if they don't drop the pan ? (EDIT

EH beat me to this one while I was composing..LOL ).. Lots of information can be gleaned from looking at the pan inside also...
If you are inclined to do this stuff yourself I would join the others who recommend it... you will know a LOT more about your car... not only the trans... but you will see stuff when you are down under that you might need to address at some time.... and might catch other problems in their beginning rather than them stranding you out on the road...
I have never seen a "quick anything" place which was good about being able to see other things than their speciality going south...

psfred · #9 04-12-2003, 11:31 AM

Funky shifts and flaring when cold on an MB sitting for some months will be normal, also the puddle of tranny fluid on the ground under the car. The torque convertor leaks down and overfills the tranny, so some fluid will spill out. When it's started up, the torque coverter is only half full, so it "slips" a bunch, plus there is a large amount of air in the tranny that will cause hard shifts (air goes right through the check ball restrictors, unlike tranny fluid), and you will end up a pint or quart low when all the air is out.

If the problem persists, you need to check the adjustment of the linkage and vac systems, with the proviso that some flare and hard shifts cold are normal - the 300D has a special circuit to soften the cold shifts. The 280 SE shifts a little sloppy cold, fine warm.

Rather than using tranny additives, I'd simply switch to Mobil 1 synthetic tranny fluid, it will help a bunch with the cold shifting and keep the tranny running longer.

If you do change the fluid, you need to change the filter, too. Don't bother with the fancy JiffyLube system, unless the engine is running, it won't change the fluid in the torque convertor.

Peter

leathermang · #10 04-12-2003, 12:10 PM

For those people who have never had the body of a transmission apart...
The operation of the bands is controlled by hydraulic pressure....this is controlled by the body which has all sorts of little passages and steel check balls ( typically about 1/8th inch in size)... which allow flow one direction but not backwards (gravity operated if not clogged with varnish)....
If ANY varnish gets into those passages it can mess with the operation of , or the speed at which , those check balls operate... and that can really make a difference with the speed of band engagement..

So , I still say, even if you are going to change to Mobil 1 or whatever you are going to do... $20 for two cans ( because your trans holds a lot of fluid compared to some ) of Trans-X ,,, and giving it time to work is good policy...

I have no idea whether or not Mobil 1 has varnish dissolving properties.... but I KNOW Trans-X does.... and there is the possiblity that the Trans-X BY itself will solve your problems....the most you can lose is $20 and the time to install....

joshhol · #11 04-12-2003, 12:16 PM

Ya, I like that Jiffy Lube system.
The thing I'd watch out for is when they 'vacuum' all the tranny fluid out of one car, then the next customer comes along and they "reverse" the plexiglass cylinders and say, ya we got your fresh transmission fluid right here.

At the very least your going to have to get the filter kit from an MB shop, no way they have that on hand.
Also, you will need a 5mm allen wrench to open the torque converter. Also get a remote bump starter (cheap) so you can lay under the car and advance the engine until you see the drain plug come around. If you do it with the key you'll be there all day.

Erikir · #12 04-12-2003, 12:33 PM

Having spent almost a year working at a quick lube place to earn money to go to school I can confirm that the transmission service does replace most of the transmission fluid in a vehicle. The proceedure is just a matter of disconnecting the transmission cooler lines and hooking them up to the machine. It's difficult for even the most inept worker to make a mistake. At the shop I worked at, after the service was completed and the cooler lines were replaced, the lines were sprayed with a bit of paint (to show signs of tampering. this is done on drain plugs and tranny pans too) and the connections were double checked for leaks. If someone vehicle was damaged as a result of the service, the damage would have been repaired at the cost of the quick lube company.

I saw one vehicle come in that had somehow had water added to the transmission. The fluid looked exactly like a strawberry milkshake. After running the transmission service and replacing the filter, the fluid looked beautiful, even 3 months later when the vehicle came in again.

I would not have the transmission pan and filter replaced at a quick lube shop. Because they are in such a rush to get the vehicle out of the shop it's quite possible that pan and the mating surface on the transmission will not be dry when the pan is replaced. I saw many vehicles return with leaky transmission pans.

An oil change and the transmission fluid replacement service are the only 2 things that I'd ever get done at a quick lube shop. The oil change is cheap. Considering the cost in time to do an oil change and the free top-ups of other under hood fluids it's worth it. Quick lube shops barely break even, or lose money on 'straight oil changes'. The transmission fluid service is one I cannot do myself. Everything else I can do myself, is snake oil, or grossly marked up.

Ken300D · #13 04-12-2003, 02:01 PM

Since you are looking for opinions and recommendations, I'll offer mine - and if it differs from the others I mean no disrespect.

You should be smacked with fresh bamboo and hung upside down by your toes if you take your car to Jiffy Lube.

(Remember now, I mean no disrespect - this is just the opinion of one unimportant person.)

Seriously, the MB diesel transmissions are pretty easy to work on when it comes to fluid and filter changes.

My recommendation is to change the fluid and filters right away. While I do not use synthetic engine oil in my diesel because of soot, I will use synthetic transmission fluid at the first sign of flaring. In my case I had a flair from gear 3-4 in cold weather.

I feel that the filter change is very important. A partially clogged filter may have an impact on the ability of the hydraulic pump to deliver the right pressure, and would make shifting disfunctional.

I tried to find Mobil 1 synthetic transmission fluid, and could not, so I went with the Quaker State 4x4 synthetic. With that and a new filter, the shifting problem went away.

Most people driving Americans cars know nothing about transmission fluid and filter changes, and don't have that service performed. So, you should always do this service on any used car that comes your way.

And of course after this, you should consider changing the differential gear oil too. Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil is great for that.

So, don't go for transmission service yet. Your symptoms sound to me like neglected transmission maintenance.

Ken300D

leathermang · #14 04-12-2003, 03:37 PM

Ken330D, I mean no disrespect when I say "Good Post" .

Erikir, Remember that we have to do some generalizing when answering these questions.... and I am sure some of the Quick service places do a good job...so we were not throwing spears at you , a former worker at one of those places... and I am sure you were being observant and honest about the trans pans and filters...that is our impression of the "need for speed" those places have also....

Also, we are naturally oriented towards talking people into Doing it Themselves... LOL... what would be discuss here if the answer was always " take it to the local mechanic"....

rwthomas1 · #15 04-12-2003, 04:02 PM

On the truck boards some guys are doing a similar flush procedure at home. They disconnect one transmission coolant line and attach a length of hose to the cooler and the disconnected hose. They they place the suction side in a 5gallon pail of fresh atf, the pressure side in any empty pail. Then the engine is started and with the parking brake on, the gear selector is run through the gears for several seconds in each. They have a helper watch the "dirty" fluid coming out into the catch pail and apparently the change to clean fluid is quite obvious, then they shut the engine off. Then the pan is dropped and the filter changed. Long process but it seems to work well virtually guaranteeing that all the fluid is new. Maybe overkill for us. RT