battery blew up - attention PEH
 

battery in the wife's jetta blew up today - literally exploded the top of it clean off :eek: acid all over...
took everything apart/washed down thoroughly with baking soda and water

intall new die hard int'l.

she is happy again (hero taking bow, hehe:p )

for PEH, this time we really didn't replace it until it was broken!!
;)


bob

battery exploding
 

Hey man,

Why, oh why, did the battery explode?:confused:

If the reason is due to the fact that the alternator was (is) overcharging, then the problem will reoccur.:mad:

If someone was attempting to jump start the jetta with the jumper cables improperly attatched, then this scenario could also occur.

So, WHAT HAPPENED?

Glad to se that noone was hurt or even BLINDED from this.

See 'ya in fishtown next time.

Spo out.

84300DT,

Happened to me once, on a Diehard. Blew the top right off while trying to start the car, a 190D, with hood up. Sounded like a shotgun firing. Wife came out and asked what I was shooting at.

It didn't spill a drop of acid, just lifted the top off the battery. Battery still worked. Would have been OK for a stationary battery.

I couldn't find the warranty card so no adjustment.

Why didn't you buy your new battery at AutoZone and save $30 dollars?

Battery explosions are caused by the hydrogen and oxygen generated in the battery by hydrolysis of the water. But there must be a source of ignition, usually a spark someplace. Kind of hard to get compression ignition in a battery.

P E H

spo and peh
 

yes it exploded when she tried to start the car so i suppose that was the source of the spark. when i installed the new battery i put a voltmeter on it with the car running and it showed around 14.5 so should be ok. the acid was somewhat contained by a battery blanket that was installed at the factory.
it was the original battery that failed, so almost 7 years old.

could it have been an internal short that blew the thing?

re new battery, why did i know you would say that peh!!
i have had very good perfomance from die hard int'ls in the past
(have had 2 in the diesel) so that is why i shelled out a few more bucks. it is a group 49 battery that fits a jetta. i believe that is the same as for our diesels?

bob

A battery, usually an old one, sometimes gets into a deteriating condition that my Dad refers to as "sulphating." He was in the electric fork truck business for many years, thus has a lot of experience with batteries.

In this condition the battery is giving off explosive gas. The more common scenario that causes an explosion is the spark from jumper cables.

The warning; whenever using jumper cables, wave your hand over the battery to disperse any concentration of gas before connecting the last cable. Better yet, hook the positive jumper cable to the battery being jumped and make the negative connection last and somewhere on the vehicle away from the battery.

A battery that requires jumping is a very possible candidate for being in the "sulphating" condition, thus could be proned to explosion.

Have a great day,

84300DT,

At first I thought you were physic about my expoding battery them I thought I may have mentioned it in a post. Then I found out you mentioned me for another reason.

Sears batteries aren't any different or better than any other lead/acid batteries no matter what their advertisements say. They are just more expensive.

Did you get a 7 year warranty like I did with my AutoZone battery? DId you get a warranty that you don't even need to keep the paperwork?

P E H

peh, i think the thing came with a 6 year warranty. i also am of the opinion that batteries are mostly the same, although i did prefer to put in a group 49.

i guess i will try an autozone next time .. the die hard in the diesel is getting on in years but still alive (sorta like me, hehe:p

thanks for the tip.
have a nice day

"If the reason is due to the fact that the alternator was (is) overcharging, then the problem will reoccur. "


spo, i went out again this morning and put the voltmeter directly onto the cable coming out of the alternator and it read 14.5 with the engine on. same reading at the battery so hopefully this is not and overcharging situation right?

14.5 volts is on the upper end of where it should be. The voltage will depend on the level of charge of the battery. After the battery is fully charged, the voltage should come down into the 13.8 volt area.

Good luck,

thanks larry, i will check it again after a week or so and/or a highway run.
bob

i was getting 14.5 at idle and 2500rpm.

I thought sulphating itself is refering to the sulfuric acid turning into solid (white) sulfur which builds up on the battery's plates and chokes it to death, comes from lack of useage. Maybe it lets out an explosive gas at the same time that it solidifies?

I just gave in and bought a 49-D Duralast battery from autozone for $59 or so to put into the 83. I believe it is 850CCA with a 125CCA reserve, works like a charm so far.

Sulphating occurs mostly when a battery is very much discharged for an extended period of time. In that case, trickle charging the battery (1-2 A) will help reverse the sulphating process to some good extent.

Eric

good point eric but in my case the defective battery was not discharged at all , it rather blew up without warning..

Geez, every battery I have ever heard of blowing up has been a die hard.... I guess they "die hard". I even had one blow.... but it was overcharged and probably bad anyway (6-7 years old).

Yea that is a hard death! :D Well I guess that changes now as the battery that blew up in this instance was a VW battery, that is unless Diehard made it for them. :)

If my memory serves me correctly I think Exide makes (or at least made) the Die Hard batteries for Sears. Maybe they made some for VW too.

i understand that die hard batteries are made by johnson controls.

in my case the battery that blew was the original vw battery that was installed at the factory. i have no idea who made it.

mespe,

With the old generators increasing engine speed definitely raised the voltage level. With alternators it is common for them to charge fully at idle. This was one of the reasons generators were replaced with alternators.

The BIGGEST reason that alternators gained favor was the fact that only excitation current passes through the brushes. In a generator the entire charging current passes through the brushes, drastically reducing brush and generator life.

Have a great day,

My bad, I misread that it was a die hard that blew up.

BOYS BOYS BOYS,


We've had this discussion many times about best batteries and best oil. Interstate Battery is a susidiary or something of Johnson Control, but doesn't make their batteries. Interstate makes Interstate batteries aswell as the white batteries that used to come from Varta. I'm still standing by Interstate, and I don't worry about warrantee, because of the superior quality. Generally I have found that you get what you pay for. Within the last few months I have installed two parts for friends who brought the parts instead of using my suppliers. one friends wife works at a chain store like Auto zone or Kragan or something. It doesn't matter, because they are all the same. I put the starter that he paid about $100 for into his 300SD. It lasted less than a week, and he had to have the car towed. I installed a Bosch rebuild for more than twice the cost. If you think about it logically, for a company to make a profit on a $100 they would have to pay about $70 wholesale. Remember there are distributers and jobbers taking a cut which means the rebuilder is probably getting about $35 to $40 a copy. With that kind of money you kinda check bearings and drives, turn the armature and toss in brushes. You paint it and throw it in a box. With that scenario you get a high failure rate so you put a good warrantee on it and sell. As long as enough starters make it through the warrantee period, you still make a profit. Who is the poor slob laying on his back on Saturday afternoon putting in the second starter? If he's dumb enough he's happy that the store he shops at offers such great warrantees. He should have gone to Fast Lane in my opinion. The second guy bought a rebuilt master cyl for his 450SL from Napa Auto Parts for $80. I don't think Napa parts are all that great either, and alot of professional mechanics will back me on that one. As an example you can have an oxygen sensor problem with your Honda or whatever and go to Napa for the new sensor and still have a problem. Go to the dealer and maybe pay less money and solve the problem. At any rate I installed the MC he provided and it failed out of the box. They cheerfully exchanged it, and the second one worked.

Back to the battery, I think Larry is right about the extra gassing and I think there has to be an open in the battery. As soon as you try to draw current, it arcs across the break and BOOM.


Peter

Wassuchi,

The battery that exploded on me was a Diehard. I didn't die very hard, did it? Poof and it was no good.

P E H

Dear friends:

Here are some advantages of alternators over generators:

1) Alternators produces good output current even at low RPM's (i.e. idling). Alternators use diode rectification while generators use mechanical rectification (brushes and commutator). Mechanical rectification only works properly at relatively high RPM's (e.g. > 2000 rpm). Diode rectification is solid state, so rectification always works no matter what RPM is.

2) Alternators' brushes only have to carry relatively low input currents and come into contact with a relatively smooth bearing surface. Generators' brushes have much shorter lifespan because they have to carry high output currents and press against an very abrasive commutator.

3) Alternators can be connected directly to a battery (reducing cost) while generators must go through a relay first, because the diodes used to rectify alternators' stator output into DC will help isolate the copper windings from the battery when an engine is off. Remember that diodes only allow currents to go through in one direction. The opposite direction is equivalent to an infinite resistance. Without a proper relay, a battery will pump current through a generator's windings when the engine is off, heats it up and destroys it (not to mention the fact the the battery will quickly be discharged and sulphated too.)

4) Alternators are much more efficient than generators. Very high output currents (amperage) can be obtained even with small-sized alternators (great for the lack of space in cars' engine compartments.).


So, alternators' advantages can be summarized in this phrase:

"efficient, long life, high output, simple, small"

Best regards,

Eric

Dear Mr. Haiges:

BTW, I wonder whether you caught a sense of "sarcasm" in 84300DT's original post?. He must be on Leathermang's side in criticizing you as a super "frugal" person :-)

Well I'm still on your side :-)

Best regards,

Eric

eric -
 

i'll jump in on ahead of our dear mr. haiges -

just to set the record straight

not at all, i am for one very much on the side of PEH and i subscribe heartily to his philosophy. i always have been as a matter of fact. if it aint broke don't fix it:)

my comment was directed as to say that the original battery had been in the car since new (practically 7 years) and so i felt that despite some people urging me to replace something that was not broken , i resisted the temptation until the battery itself blew up and forced me into installing a new one. i certainly feel that i got a long useful life out of that battery, to say the least.

if my comment was deemed sarcastic then i apologize as that was not the intent. it was merely to illustrate a part that frankly came to the very end of it's useful life - in a big way!! something that i thought PEH would appreciate.

my thought is though that if it is broken then fix it in a way that is economical.

i have learned many economical ways to deal with issues in my car from PEH, leathermang, larry, and many others here. that's what makes the diesel forum so great - the people.

hopefully i can give some back to others with my experiences and meantime big thanks to all.


bob in ct

84300DT,

I didn't take your comment as being negative at all. Leather and I have a friendly rivalry going which is not negative either.

I hope to pass some of my frugality along especially to MB owners who take their cars to mechanics that replace parts that do not need to be replaced like the guy that payed $50 extra to have the fuel filters replaced. What a rip off.

Or the guy that bought a Diehard battery when an AutoZone battery was $30 lass and had a longer warranty.

P E H

84300DT,

I didn't take your comment as being negative at all. Leather and I have a friendly rivalry going which is not negative either.

I hope to pass some of my frugality along especially to MB owners who take their cars to mechanics that replace parts that do not need to be replaced like the guy that payed $50 extra to have the fuel filters replaced. What a rip off.

Or the guy that bought a Diehard battery when an AutoZone battery was $30 less and had a longer warranty.

P E H

ALternator VS Generator:

The reason an alternator puts out a higher voltage at idle speed is that its rotational speed is higher than a generator. Notice how much smaller an alternator pulley is than the pulley on a generator (if you can find one).

An alternator can have higher rotational speed than a generator because of the lower mass of the rotor of the alternator. This is because only the excitation current goes thru the alternator rotor instead of the output current as in a generator.

What made an alternator possible for automotive use was the development of solid state diodes that were low enough in cost and could handle the high current necessary to run the auxiliary equipment and recharge the battery.

It is true that a generator must be protected by a relay that passes current in only one direction otherwise the generator would act like a motor and discharge the battery. This relay is actually a mechanical diode and could be replaced by a solid state diode.

In the common 3 coil "voltage regulator" of bygone days, there were 3 relays in one box. 1 was the mechanical diode, 2 was a voltage regulator to keep the output voltage constant as the generator voltage varied with speed and 3 was an overcurrent relay to protect the generator from putting out too much current, overheating and burning out.

Erics comments also apply so I won't repeat them.

P E H

weeelll , i admit i am the guy that paid a bit more for the die hard int'l , but...

as far as i know if i did get that duralast from autozone
i would have had to re-route the positive and maybe also the negative wires in the car to fit the new battery's terminals that are on the 'wrong' side of the battery.
this was something i did not want to do as there are hold downs for the wires attached directly to the car's body which i wanted to use without having to drill and relocate them.

i think we also have this same problem with our W123 diesels
limiting our choices of replacements.

and..with the wif pushing to get her car back (RIGHT NOW..!!)
well you know the story;)

we shall see how long this battery lasts.

have a good day

84300DT,

You need to modify nothing on a MB. AutoZone has a group 49 battery that fits directly in a 190D, 200D, 220D, 240D 300SD and 300SDL and probably the others. If your VW takes the same battery as MBs, the AutoZone battery should fit that too.

But if your VW were to need a battery and only Sears had one that fit, I can understand paying more to get a battery where you don't need to do modifications to your car.

Walmart used to sell a group 49, but not anymore. I guess the volume sales of group 49 batteries wasn't high enough for them. National also sells a group 49 battery but it costs more and has a year less on the watrranty.

Maybe you should have kept the battery and replaced the VW with a MB. LOL

P E H

yes peh, that's what the problem was, autozone only show a group 41 battery for the vw. i seem to remember also having the same thing happen way back in the day with my 73 super bug, and ended up with a diehard as well.

if and when the die hard in the benz fails, i will try the autozone one. as far as i can tell it is the same battery as sears, just with a different name and lower price.

sure! i would love to replace the vw with a benz, but i need to keep it a while longer since i had calculated at least a 10 year service life from new with us, in order to get the full economy out of it.
so far considering how few repairs it has needed, it is in reality beyond my original expectations and estimates (crossing fingers..)

also the wife "loves" it, so i think i will keep it for now,
LOL:D