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#1
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Which Diesel Truck is better?
I am starting to look for a Diesel truck of some kind, and have narrowed my choice to either a Dodge Ram 2500 or a Ford F-250. Today I took a 1992 Ram 250 for a test drive today, and it was very fun to drive. Next week I am going to try and take a F-250 for a test drive, probally will have the 6.9 or 7.3 liter engine (I can't afford one with a Powerstroke)...
Now my question, which one is a better truck? The reason I am asking this is that it looks like I might be needing a larger truck for a future job that I might be getting, oh, and it needs to be a 4x4. btw, I will probally be keeping my 300CD for a while. Having a job has been helpful in making a few of those repairs that I have been neglecting, which were way cheaper than I expected |
#2
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123c,
I drove both. I didn't like the Dodge/Cummins Diesel because of the limited RPM range of the 6 cylinder engine. It only turns about 2600 RPM and seemed to run out of revs too soon. The Ford IH V8 engine turns 3500 RPM and didn't seem to run out of revs like the Dodge did. The trucks I tested both had manual transmissions. Possibly with an automatic transmission the Dodge would be OK. I would prefer the Ford/IH to the Dodge/Cummins. To me an engine with a wider RPM range is more flexible. Consumer Reports said the Ford was a more refined truck than the Dodge. P E H Last edited by P.E.Haiges; 08-13-2003 at 08:42 AM. |
#3
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Eventhough the Dodge didn't have a tach, I did notice the limited RPM Range in the Cummins Engine. However I did like the the sound of the turbo
When I test the Ford I will be sure to notice the RPM of the IH engine. There are a few dealerships here that have some older Fords that I can test drive (they are all less $$$ than the Dodge I test drove today). The most important thing I am looking for is something that has a manual transmission (I don't really want to mess with Automatic transmissions anymore)... |
#4
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Boy oh boy...
BTW, you probably know this, but Dodge started putting the Cummins in their truck in the 1989 model year. The "First Generation" was around until '93. In '94, they changed to the newer bodystyle, and also made some engine improvements (inline injector pump instead of rotary, a bit more horsepower, etc). '89 and some '90 trucks did not have intercoolers, and some early trucks were equipped with 3 speed automatics, which were bulletproof but offer no overdrive gear. Ford started putting the 6.9l Navistar engine in their truck in '83. Halfway through the '87 model year, they started using the 7.3l instead. They kept the IDI 7.3l until halfway through the '94 model year when they switched to the Powerstroke. Some '94 IDI's have factory turbo's; otherwise, every engine came from the factory naturally aspirated. Note that, except for the turbo'ed IDI's, the 6.9l and the 7.3l put out almost the exact same power numbers (the 6.9l puts out 175 horsepower and 300 lb-ft of torque; the 7.3l puts out 185 horsepower and about 325 ft-lbs of torque). Dodge: Good:
Bad:
Ford: Good:
Bad:
I think I got everything...if you can afford it, my vote goes to Dodge. I actually want to put a 12 valve Cummins in my truck someday. However, in spite of that list I wouldn't call the Ford a bad truck. There are some engine issues, but if taken care of, they can last a while. I've got 215K miles on my F-250, and while that may not be that high by MB diesel standards, that's still amazing compared to an '84 Ford 460-powered truck. I also get 15mpg. One last suggestion would be to get a truck with 3.54 differential gearing. I've owned both, and especially 'cause these diesels don't really care for high RPM's (the 6.9l and 7.3l hit the governor at 3400 RPM, and the Cummins even lower), IMHO the trucks are more flexible with 3.54 gearing. With my 4.10's and 4 speed, I"m in top gear by 35 mph. Hope that helps some...you might also want to check out www.thedieselstop.com (Ford) and www.dieseltruckresource.com (Dodge). If I can be of any further help, let me know. Good luck with your decision!
__________________
2001 VW Jetta TDI, 5 speed, daily driver 1991 Ford F-350, work in progress 1984 Ford F-250 4x4, 6.9l turbo diesel, 5 speed manual Previous oilburners: 1980 IH Scout, 1984 E-350, 1985 M-B 300D, 1979 M-B 300SD, 1983 M-B 300D Spark-free since 1999 |
#5
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Pay attention to what WARDEN says. He is a frequent contributor to thedieselstop.com. In fact when I was looking for MB diesel, I posted on that board and he told me anout mercedesshop.com. His summary hits all the high points.
My '86 F250 6.9 auto has just passed 325,000 miles and I rebuilt the engine--After completeing the rebuild, by assessment is that it really only needed a valve job as the original hone marks were still visible in the cylinders--not real deep, but visible. I love my truck. Oh, and even with the non turbo 6.9 auto it is still faster than my 240D. In fact when I'm pulling my 6000lb 5th wheel I think its about as "fast" as the 240D. |
#6
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I have owned a Dodge with a 6BT and loved it. The problem was the Dodge truck that was attached to the engine, but the drivetrain was fabulous. Mine was a '91 so it was the earlier body design that was almost 20 years old. Maybe the newer trucks are better.
I have driven Ford's and the truck itself is far superior minus the engine. The V8 appears that it would be MUCH more difficult to work on. My ideal truck would be the Ford truck with the Cummins 6BT. My $0.02, |
#7
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I have the Dodge/Cummins combo. You would have to pry my cold dead hands from the steering wheel of that truck. Go with the Cummins, and keep the truck simple (IE, no automatic or power crap), and the truck will outlive the old 240D. Ford in comparison cannot hold a candle to the Cummins. They just aren't in the same league.
As for the old mechanical diesels limited RPM. I really don't notice the wider range of my ISB engine as I still run it primarily between 1600 and 2100 RPM. The 5.9B engine is a medium duty engine, and it acts like one. The 2600 RPM redline just comes with the territory. |
#8
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Thanks for the great information so far
I have been leaning more towards the Dodge since the very begining. I think I can afford one, just the one I was testing was about $4,000 over priced . The doors didn't seem to want to close all the way, and the door handle on the outside were way loose, does anyone if the is common on these older models? I might be able to afford a 1994 when the time comes around for me to get one, which still might be a while away... Today I will try and test drive a Ford, and see how I like it... If I had the money, I would rather buy a 606/616 Unimog , but for some reason prices start above my current price range for a truck |
#9
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There is a good reason the Dodge/Cummins truck is more expensive that a comparable Ford/Navistar - the Cummins engine is far and away better than the Navistar.
In general the Cummins is not as refined as the Navistar but it is more fuel efficient, has fewer moving parts and is way tougher. The lower end of a 6BT is astonishing - the pistons, connecting rods and crank are two orders of magnitude overbuilt. Its quite obvious these things were made to tow heavy loads hundreds of thousands of miles. The Navistar, by contrast, seems to be built with an eye towards costs.... I have over 100K miles experience with the Dodge/Cummins combo (both old and new body styles) and I'm 100% satisfied with my choice. Tim |
#10
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One other thing. If you buy a brand new Ford V8 diesel it is the 6.0. They are having lots of problems with them. To learn more about this, read the discussion forum at www.thedieselstop.com
I did not even go into the toughness of the 6BT. As far as I'm concerned if it says "Cummins" on it, there's nothing else that needs to be said. Have a great day, |
#11
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Quote:
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#12
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Quote:
The 7.3l PSD has its own sets of problems (cackle, crank position sensor going out, rough-running engine if the oil's old, etc)...also, if the injectors ever need to be replaced, it costs more to buy ONE injector for a PSD than it costs to buy a set of 6 for a Cummins (or a set of 8 for an IDI, for that matter). They're fun to drive, but then again, so is the Cummins. Quote:
BTW, I have my F-250 because it has a lot of sentimental value (an inheritance from one of my favorite people in the world)...if it weren't for that, I'd have a Dodge right now. In fact, I came within a couple of days of replacing my old E-series van with a '92 D-250 Cummins instead of my 300D. |
#13
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If you want a 4x4 AND a decent riding truck, then the Dodge ain't your rig, at least the first generation ('89-'93). My '93 4x4 w/extended cab has a leaf spring solid axle front end and is a real kidney buster to drive. The truck itself is junk in my mind, as the hardware and body integrity are sub-subpar.
The Cummins engine is a wonder to behold though! I get better fuel mileage than my old '88 VW Vanagon, and it's virtually indestructible. I really like that the Cummins is a 6 cyl. with just one head, requiring fewer parts, and taking up less engine compartment space too. When I was searching for a rig I kept coming accross Fords and Chevys in the Autotrader and on Ebay with long lists of replaced parts (injectors, inj. pumps, heads, engine rebuilds, etc.), but the Dodges just listed general maintenance items. I love the engine and drivetrain, but I'm pretty ambivalent about the rest of the truck. If I had to purchase a work truck that didn't need much of my time to maintain, then the Dodge is the only rational choice out there IMHO. I think a Cummins 6BT/OM617 comparison is very appropriate. Good luck |
#14
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The way I used to describe a Chrysler body was that "your first inclination after slamming the door is to roll down the window to look out and see what fell off."
As I said earlier in this thread, the Dodge body is clunky and the chassis marginal, but the drivetrain is Sweeeettt!!! Have a great day, |
#15
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Does anyone know if it is a common thing for the doors to not shut all the way on a Dodge, because both doors did the same thing . I sort of have a feeling it may have something to do with something the previous owner did
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