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#1
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Somewhat off-topic, but does anyone know anything about Detroit 6-71 governors?
Hello! I have a bit of a story here...I posted this in the General Diesel section on TDS, but would like as many opinions as possible.
I'm working with a non-profit youth program that has a 40' former admiral's gig, with a 6-71 (4 valve head, non-turbo) coupled with an Allison tranny (not sure on the model number). Last spring, the boat almost sank, so seawater got into the crankcase and into the tranny. We got the oil/water out, put fresh oil in, and fired off that night to make sure that the engine didn't seize. We only ran it for a little while (basically enough time to get the oil to mix in with any water that might still be left in the crankcase), then shut down, let it sit for a few days, and drained the oil again (real PITA: had to use a handpump for most of it ). This time, the engine oil looked pretty clean, although the tranny oil was milky enough to imply that there was still water in the tranny. We were told at the time to let the crankcase and the tranny sit empty for a while, so we did...until today (a period of maybe 3 months). Today, I changed the filters, got oil (40 weight Delo in both the engine and the tranny; I was told to use that in the engine by someone at a shop, but wasn't sure on the tranny) in both the engine and the tranny, and fired off. The good news is, she runs. Fired almost right off, as a matter of fact. Engine oil still looks clean and water-free, and engine oil pressure looks happy. Bad news is, there's an idle problem. The engine will fire right off cold or hot, but once she warms up, she starts loping. This actually isn't new; she's been doing this for quite a while. However, it seems to be worse now. Before, at the "low" spot in the loping, she would get to a real low RPM but would continue to run. Now, she's actually dying. Sometimes the governor will catch up in time to keep the engine running, but sometimes she won't, and the engine dies and I have to fire her back up. Once she's revved up above 1000 RPM, the RPM's stay even and happy. I heard once that this was a governor issue and that we needed a mechanic to come and adjust the governor and the rack. Does this sound right, or is it something we can do ourselves? I don't have any special tools per se, but I'm fairly competent mechanically. Also, how can I find out what oil's supposed to go into the tranny? I've got the same 40 weight oil in there that's in the engine, but I'm not seeing very much pressure on the trans pressure gauge, and the tranny will shift into reverse, but not into forward. I think the tranny needs to be drained again, but I didn't get a real good look at the fluid (couldn't tell if it was milky or just foamy)... Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'll see if there's a rating plate on the tranny or not so I can give a model number. Thanks in advance!
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2001 VW Jetta TDI, 5 speed, daily driver 1991 Ford F-350, work in progress 1984 Ford F-250 4x4, 6.9l turbo diesel, 5 speed manual Previous oilburners: 1980 IH Scout, 1984 E-350, 1985 M-B 300D, 1979 M-B 300SD, 1983 M-B 300D Spark-free since 1999 |
#2
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if its an allison dont use motor oil in it, the trany needs a much lighter oil, with special additives for corrosion, heat, slippage etc. use dextron 3 with mercon to flush it with, then refill using syntech (allisions sythetic) oil.
you must have special timing pins to set the injectors on a detroit, and setting the "bounce" on the rack is a pretty tedious job, even for a mechanic trained and experianced the earlier detroits. (53,71,92) serise etc. if you dont get it right it can run away very easy and destroy the engine. my recommendation is to have a certified detroit mechanic do the job for you. would be worth a couple hundred dollars to get it done right and with out damage. good luck
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matt |
#3
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Warden,
I was thinking the same thing as Mercedesmatt about putting engine oil in the transmission. You wouldn't do that to your car, would you? Since you are working with a non-profit youth group, maybe you get a shop to give you a comp job on the engine. There might be a slow day when the shop's techs aren't doing much so it wouldn't cost the shop much to help you. They can write it off on their taxes as a donation to charity. Or maybe a tech would volunteer his time. I wouldn't hurt to try. P E H Last edited by P.E.Haiges; 09-07-2003 at 01:13 PM. |
#4
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Warden:
What do you guys do with kids and boats? We have a sailing program in which we train students. Use about 25 boats per year and sail in the North Channel and the Caribbean. We snagged a bunch of protocol from the boy scouts who use boats in their high adventure program. Don
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DAILY DRIVERS: '84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's) '99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's) '97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's) '97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's) '96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's '84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion) SOLD: '82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed |
#5
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Warden,
I would look up the trans at http://www.allisontransmission.com/product/series/index.jsp And if I couldn't find it there or couldn't find the number on it to begin with I would contact them and tell them your situation... they would have someone who could tell you where to look for the model number and what and how much fluid to put in it.
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1985 300D Turbo ~225k 2000 F350 (Powerstroke) 4X4, SWB, CC, SRW, 6spd ~148k 1999 International 4900, DT466e (250hp/660 ft/lbs), Allison MD3060 ~73k |
#6
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Quote:
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PEH, I'll give that a try. We might actually have the timing pins... |
#7
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Warden,
PM me with your e-mail and I'll FWD it to a friend that is knowledgeable on most, if not all, DD/Allison issues. R
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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm. |
#8
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The 80's and 90's railroad equipment uses detroit from 3-53-6-71.Setting the rack is not near as hard as people make it out. get the right pin and any body who sets the valves on a MB can do a detroit. Make sure your injecters don't leak down first. Then get the plate off of the valve cover and go to detroit and the will sell u the right tool to set the injecter timing with. They sell a kit but you sound like u will only do this on engine. Buy the detroit fiels manual also. About $75 bucks I think. Send a messagae to me and i will make u some copys and send to u if money is tight. I was in the Sea Scouts in Louisville in the 70's.
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I like to Drive 77 Celica GT 295000 sold 80 Volvo DL 168000 sold 84 Volvo GLT 342000 Real fast sold 86 Crown Vic. 258000 cheap to keep 84 Ford Van 6.9 360000 sold Great 88 Ford Dulley 7.3 311000 still have 90 Ford Van 7.3 235000 sold great 92 Ford Van 7.3 223000 Excellent still have 82 300TD 1st Benz Great Car 205000Sold 85 300SD 245000 What a ride 84 300SD project car with son, Rod knock 85380SE What a RIDE 90 420SEL Nice Ebay Addition Great buy |
#9
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This is a marine tranny right, basically just a forward and reverse with no gears to shift? If I'm guessing this right, that tranny wouldn't have the same hydraulic requirements of the multi cog units on the street, only lube duty. 40wt oil may very well be what it needs.
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#10
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Quote:
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Again, what I was told was that some Allison marine gearboxes use engine oil, while some use ATF. I'm going to research this better as soon as I get a model number for the tranny (IIRC, there's a rating plate that's obscured by rust on the tranny itself)... |
#11
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Buffer screw
If the governor is not totally worn out, you could take the roll out of it with the buffer screw. This is on the side of the governor, a 3/8 (takes a 9/16 wrench) nut on a bolt with a 7/16 head. Loosen the nut and screw the bolt in with the engine running until the idle smooths out. Do not increase the idle speed ! When the idle smooths out, bump the throttle and release, the engine should come back to a steady idle.
Seems like everyone is afraid of a Detroit because most have heard that they will "run away". This is why they have an emergency shutdown on the blower housing. Just pull the lever and it will stop. I have worked on Detroits for 25 years,and have only had a few run away. Usually because of a faulty injector. Good luck, Jeff
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1971 R600 Mack toterhome (SuperDawg) 99 NU-WA Snowbird 34+2 SE 102 5er If it's not diesel, it's not in my stable! 53 F100 617.951/auto 95 Dodge 3500 Cummins/5 speed service truck |
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