1. what are the strengths and weaknesses
of diesel cars?
2. what is best year and model?

thanks for all your info.

joel,

My prediction is that there will be at least thirty replies to this post.

I will respond to question number one, and touch on question two.

1. It seems to me that diesels are one of those things that an individual either loves, or hates. I've had diesel tractors for twenty five years and diesel cars/pickups for fifteen.

With tractors it's a nobrainer. They last so long they make my 516K mile diesel car look like something that doesn't hold up. They make more torque with less fuel and require less maintenance. Diesel tractors come as close to something that will last forever as anything can come. That's why I went to diesel road vehicles.

The advantages to a diesel are:

o There is more energy to be had from a gallon of diesel than a gallon of gasoline.

o Diesels are not throttled, thus there are minimal pumping losses, adding to increased efficiency.

o Diesels have high compression ratios, necessary for ignition, which contribute to higher fuel efficiency.

o Diesel combustion byproducts are basically oilly substance rather than carbon, as in a gas engine. Carbon is a mild abrasive, which contibutes to engine wear.

o The maintenance is less frequent with diesel engines. You don't change spark plugs, adjust and clean carburetors, keep up with ignition maintenance, etc. you typically replace filters and drive them. You, of course, have to keep up with oil changes on any engine.

o When diesel engines get into their twilight miles, they usually will keep on going as long as you can carry enough oil with you to get where you're going. The consumed oil is mostly burned and acts as fuel to take you down the road. With a gas engine, high oil consumption fouls spark plugs, and causes other problems which force you to take action. High oil consumption in a gas engine makes it into a mosquito sprayer.

o Gasoline stinks. (unless you're always pumping gasoline instead of diesel, then diesel stinks)

o Diesels sound neat! (unless, of course, you're one of the diesel haters, in which case, the sound is one of the things you hate)

The advantages to gasoline engines are:

o More horsepower.

o Quieter operation.

o Smoother operation.

Again, you either love them or hate them. I think that most people that like diesels have a certain part of them that appreciates the mechanical aspects of the machine.

I can only speak for myself on this one, I drive mostly cruising down the highway. If you normally drive stoplight to stoplight, the lack of power will probably bother you more. I have actually pulled away from a stoplight in a 240D before, giving it all it had, and had someone behind honking. I think it's safe to say that they were asking me step on the accelerator. The 240D is the slowest of the slow.

As for the best diesel Benz? We all here on the forum would have to know what you're looking for in a car, to help you with that. Do you want a big car, or small car? Do you want maximum economy, or most performance? Do you want the one with the best reilibility record? Do you want an older car for the least amount of money? Or do you want one of the diesel V8 EClass cars that Benz will come out with in a year or two?

Give us what you want in a diesel Benz, and I'll bet you get so much feedback and so many opinions, you'll be able to come up with a choice that suits you.

Being the ardent diesel Benz fan that I am, I'm really looking forward to reading the posts that are surely on their way.

Best of luck, and love those diesels,


------------------
Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 516K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

Larry, phenomenal post. Larry's post pretty much says it all- read no more if you prefer.

For an owner of both the diesel and the gas, ideally I would have them both. One I would use for day to day and one for long trips. The diesel I would use for long trips.

I do like the quieter ride in the gas (especially going to church or a wedding) and as far as acceleration goes, as long as you have turbo in the diesel, you'll be OK.

What I really wanted was a 90-92's 350 SDL, the monster 126 with a 6 Cylinder Turbo. I could not find many on the market and the ones who were selling wanted too much so I bought the 420 SEL gas instead.

I liked my 300 SD. Only sold it because I moved. It had enough guts to get me around town and it has enough leg room.

For me, my favorite cars are the 126 420 SELs and 350 SDLs. Either one and you'll be very very very happy with your purchase.

Note that deisel fuel can cose more than gas in some places so you might not be saving anything with the better economy with than the diesel.

As Larry explained, it is more your preference and personality than anything else.

------------------
'89 420 SEL
'90 300 SEL
'84 300 SD (sold it)

thanks to larry and txbill and others for info. i post this question as an offshoot to my quest for buying my 18yr daughter a car to commute to university. also, i would like to own a decent MB diesel if i find one for my daily use at work. work meaning running (driving) around town doing errands. i am always intriqued to see quite a number of early MB diesel cars on the road - rusting away but still running!! my concerns are associated to weather/temperature conditions here in vancouver, canada, and costs in maintenance. i understand that while routine maintenance may be nil, breakdowns could be costly. thanks. joel

[This message has been edited by joel (edited 04-01-2000).]

joel,

What breakdowns? Seriously though, they do happen. At 516K miles my 240D spit up and died, broken valve, broken ?, who knows, I have yet to do exploratory surgery. I put an engine out of a donor car into it.

For your climate, I would reccomend a car with pin type glow plugs. If they're bad, replace all of them for about$25 or $30 US. Also if the car doesn't have a block heater, which it probably will have, add one. Otherwise, with the proper oil, and a good battery, you should have no problems.

Don't worry, within 24 to 48 hours, this post will get you adequate information on which to base a decision.

Good luck,


------------------
Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 516K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

The best diesel is 1984 300D or 300SD. 1985 is the next best. If you want to buy MB diesel after 1985, do your home work thoroughly. I heard that the 350 diesel engine had a lot of problems.

Diesel fuel which is hard to start a fire is much safer than gasoline during a crash.

All the diesel MBs 1985 or older are very cheap to keep, a lot of after market parts and junk yard parts.

The diesel engine and smog device are very simple (1985 or older), no sensors, no electrical fuel pump, no complicated computers, no spark/wire/distributor, etc, to worry about. If the alternater goes out during a trip, you still can make it home. Maintenance and most repairs can be DIY.

I sometimes sat in my 300SD with engine idling and AC on while eating my lunch. You cannot realy do this to a gas engine, it can get very hot.

Some gas stations have a different island for diesel fuel, most of the time, there is no waiting.

The best of all, I do not have to worry about being followed too close on highway. Some people just do not like the smell of diesel. If I am being followed too close, I just floor the gas pedal that gets him into a cloud of black smoke. He will go away. It works every time, so far.

I love my diesel so much. I just could not think of any bad things about it (love is blind, remember?).

David

PS: I hope I don't fool you this morning.


[This message has been edited by be459 (edited 04-01-2000).]

I had to put my 10 cents in to this post(inflation, ya know).
I have recently become part of the brotherhood that is MB ownership by purchasing an '85 300D Turbo and I must say that it is an experience. Not fast, by performance standards, but extremely comfortable and reliable so far. I feel that the diesels are great because of the added reliability and low cost of ownership. You can tell that these cars are not meant to fall apart as easily as some other makes by the way that it drives and handles. I highly recommend a 123 or 126 series car with the turbo diesel as a great car for anyone to drive.

OK... this post it too tempting... I must contrubute.....

I have an '87 SDL with 120K. It was my first diesel and I've owned it for 1.5 years. THe comfort and performance is truely awesome. I've enjoyed the renewed experience of being able to work on it myself. I regurally change the oil/filter/fuel filter(main/pre) and air filter. I buy all this stuff from the Part Shop. With the turbo, the car is not sluggish at all with the exception of starting from 0-10mpg. The 126 diesels also make excellent traveling cars especially with little kids because the back seat area is so large.

Finally one of the primary impressions is the strength and stability of these cars. You get the confidence that you're driving something powerful and substantial that won't leave you stranded.

one important aspect i forgot to post is whether these diesel cars have a different stringent standard to pass the smog test (air care test, in canada).
thanks again.

The W123 chassis is pretty much built like a brick outhouse...basic in function, practical in design, and superior longevity.
From what I have seen, the 240's will last a little longer than the 300's, but after 300k+...who's counting? I'd say that after that, it becomes a competition to see who can get the most miles out of their engine. The highest mile engines that I have heard about so far are Larry Bible's at 516k and another guys 240 on a yahoo message board who claims 716k.
For those wishing to have some acceleration (handy for getting one the expressway) the 300D with a turbo comes immediately to mind. You may have seen my posts about my stupid flywheel wanting to leave...this is a freak happening, don't let it discourage you.
I have, and still do, think about the W126's (as long its a 5cyl), the only thing that makes me hesitant, is all of the extra "toys" and gadgets that are most likely not as cheap to fix as comparable items on a 123. If the 'right' 126 comes along though, I'll probably jump on it, er..in it, and continue my ongoing addiction t MB diesels.
As far as the fuel, Dielel can be found by any truck stop, and if you shop around (like I do) you can find it usually cheaper than gas. Personally I have found that different counties have different amounts of taxes on differnt types of fuel. Knowing this I can time my purchases for when I am in the next county south and buy diesel for 14¢ a gallon less. ($1.45)
ok ok ...so I am a Dieselhead

...and the posts roll on...

------------------
03/83 300D
07/73 280

Hi,
I just bought a 1991 300d 2.5 turbo. I would recomend reading the "Illustrated Mercedes-Benz Buyer Guide", by Frank Barrett. The book has a great deal of information. You may want to also read the past postings on this board. One thng I do recomend you MUST do is get the car looked at by someone who knows MBZ!!!! I know cars pretty well, I race SCCA, but when I took my cat to MBZ specialist, he was able to pick out about $1,600 worth of normal wera and tear items for a car with 165K on it. The seller deducted all of this. Some of these things were not really that bad, but Maryland has a VERY strict state inspection for registering a used car. It needed a timing chain + tensioner, transmission gasket, rear shocks, exhaust, tie rods, oil pressure sensor.
Needless to say I absolutely love the car. I have had many luxury cars from Lexus, to BMW to Jeep Grand Jerokee to Volvo 850 which were all bought new. This MBZ is of far superior quality even with 165K on it. The gas mileage is about 35 city 41 hwy.

Larry Delor's (from previous post) high opinion of these fine automobiles (82-85 300D's) was one of the main factors in me buying my '85 300D (267K). Larry and I will soon be related (I'm gonna marry his mom). After seeing how reliable his was (i.e., if you disregard the uncommon flywheel problem), I decided that I wanted to have one of these "tanks" to drive. Once I get on the freeway, I really appreciate having the turbo. Especially when I'm in the middle of the lousy Detroit traffic.

As far as maintenance goes, I think everyone summed it up pretty much when they said that it is simple and alot of it is DIY.

Good luck,
Frank


------------------
FrankieZ
84 500SEL EURO 87K
85 300DT 267K (not my miles tho)

Gentleman, there is a lot of praise of the older diesels here however only one person mentioned the W124 chassis with the 2.5 diesel engine. I am just wondering if there is a particular reason for this (namely less reliability from the 3 liter six cilynder turbo diesel, I know about the trap oxidizer problem) or just lack of response. I've always been a gasoline fan however lately I am considering jumping the fence (I do drive a lot). I am still a bit squamish about the performance of said diesel though (I love the W124 chassis, just the right size for me) does anyone know the performance difference between the 300E and the 300TD. I mean real world difference: offline acceleration, passing ability, and highway pick-up. Also I live up north, winter is no joke around here so how bad is it to start these cars in the winter? Do I absolutely need a block heater? My 300E just passed the 240k (I know it is not that much by diesel standards) so proper maintenance would not be a problem.
Thanks.

Alex

THe 300D 2.5 is actualy a 5 cylinder and it is rare, but a very good motor. In the book I recomended in my earlier post they call it an excellent car and a best bet in a 1990 or later diesel. It does not have a trap oxidizer and is probably one of the quickest diesels 0-60 in 9.8 seconds. The car clatters like a diesel at idle (I had to get used to this, since I never had a diesle), but as soon as you hit the gas, it is dead silent. The car is a pleasure to drive. The 1990-1993 diesels can be identified by the 6 slots in the right fender, this is the opening for the intake, but these cars are rare. When I tried to find one on the internet, I was originally looking for a 1985 SD, but I saw this diesel was local and decided to drive it just to make sure I reallly wanted a diesel. After that, it was history. I was sure I wanted this car, not the 1985 SD. Don't get me wrong the SD is a great car, but I fell in love with this car after just sitting in it.

Everyone just about covered the topic of Diesels, and gasoline engines, so Im not gonna continue...except that you might have a problem of having to find a fuel station that serves diesel. Here in New York City, not all fuel stations carry diesel. Its pretty much a ***** to drive around looking for diesel...just my 2 cents


Agron
1989 300E