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  #1  
Old 01-02-2004, 09:40 PM
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When is the last time you checked your radiator fins?

Well my 83 has been running much warmer than I'd like it to lately and warming up at the oddest times, the amount it warms up at idle or while driving 35mph keeps me watching the radiator. It was getting to the point when I shut the car down I'd kick the heat onto max to bleed out some of the heat. I seen there was a little bit of dirt on the radiator, big deal right? What I didn't see was that the vast majority of the radiator was clogged full of dirt and small road debris. It is very hard to see the radiator behind the condensor, but the condensor looked perfectly clean the radiator should to right? Wrong! While it still never hit 100*C it got very close yesterday so I figured I'd go ahead and clean it out.

I'd estimate I had about 35% of original efficency left, now I'm probably upto 65% but would be willing to settle for 80% if I could get a better method of cleaning. I just spent the last hour or so cleaning it out, while it is much better I still need a better method. I just used a air nozzle with a hose on it to clean out where the nozzle itself couldn't reach. I can still see dirt on the lower portions of the radiator and am wondering would a power washer work much better or will the condensor kill so much of the pressure and flow that it'd be a waste of time?

One more (nonrelated) question that comes to mind is can the fuel return hoses be reused at all? Mine only have about 5k miles of use on them and after reinstalling the injectors every single injector seems to be leaking at the top somewhere even though the line seems to be at about the proper torque.

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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2004, 10:30 PM
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Jeff

I have had mixed results using the hose again. I usually try to make em a little on the long side when installing them new and cut off plenty of the ends when reusing. Sometimes it works and sometimes not.

I installed a screen in front of my radiator (no AC) to stop the flying things. Its door screen over 1" galvenized heardware cloth. Seems to do a good job.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2004, 10:31 PM
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BoostnBenz,

There are a couple of ways the radiator performance can degrade due to poor air flow through the finned area. One is the dirt as you have noticed and the other is bending and corroding the fins themselves. In many radiators the fins are really more of a ribbon of thin steel bent back and forth to fit snugly between the water channels (later MBs have all Aluminum construction, which limits this form of degradation but does not eliminate it). The fins are often painted to prevent corrosion. As the debris you have noted damages the paint, the fins corrode and the passages also fill up with flaking paint, rust and road debris, which generally accumulates in the bottom of the finned spaces.

Another way is from impact of several kinds of larger items along the road. Large insects, small rocks, and, yes, high pressure water from wash wands at the local car wash bays can deform this thin metal and effectively blank off the air passages. So, I would not recommend using such a means to clean the dirt out. If there is really a lot of stuff in the bottom of the air passages or deformed fins blocking flow, I would suspect your radiator is not going to cooperate in your cleaning effort. I think a new radiator may be the best course of action, but you will be able to tell by a good visual examination. Good luck, Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2004, 10:48 PM
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I try to keep mine as long as possible when making them as well but perhaps I'll just trash these, my whole idea is one which already happened to me. Driving around a hose blew off so I shortened it a little bit to get me home, that is when I installed this set.

Good idea, however I have the condenser there to catch everything so I just need to watch the build up on the fins in the future.

Actually Jim I have all three of those problems with my radiator however I don't have the heart to rid of it yet because the plastic is still so pliable unlike most which get brittle in their old age. I can straighten some of the fins in back but the majority of the problem lays with the dirt on the fins, if I shine a light through (only works on edges) I see how much is really there. Aren't they anodized rather than painted? Painting is a method I'd expect on some rebuilt POS to make it look better however doesn't that ruin the thermal coefficient of the unit itself? Anodizing supposedly increases the thermal conductivity of the unit.

I questioned how much a pressure washer would actually benefit it because of that exact problem. Some of the dirtiest regions started from having blocked fins on the inside of the radiator. The bottom center area looked like someone pushed the fan into it or something of this sort. I wouldn't say they are completely bent over but the flow is surely impeded there.

Thanks guys.
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #5  
Old 01-03-2004, 08:39 AM
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BoostanBenz,

MB radiators are easy to remove. You could get it much cleaner by removing it to clean it.

Jim Smith,

I have never seen a copper radiator with fins made of steel, only copper.
The oil cooler is made of steel though, probably because of the high pressure of the oil and there is no water in the cooler.

P E H
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2004, 11:40 AM
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Perhaps next summer or fall I'll take it right out, but the coolant in it now is only a few months old. Also rather than being cheap this time and buying the green stuff I'm going to take gsxr's advice of using the MB stuff in it, I remember when my 84 had a leak and I felt the fluid to see what it was and was amazed at the lubricity of the clear liquid. I'll also probably change all of the hoses this next time, most of them are still stock hoses after all of these years.
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2004, 11:55 AM
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BoostnBenz,

You are probably right in that the black coating on the fins was not paint, but some other kind of coating material. In the end, it was more long lasting than the material of the fins as when they crumbled away, the black coating was all that was left. When I encountered this the first time, I was more disappointed by the fact that the lower half of the radiator was no longer finned than curious about what the stuff was that was left over after the fins had departed. Thereafter I just wrote the whole sequence of events off as a consequence of the radiator being affordable. With Aluminum radiators this problem is not as apparent, at least not so far.

PEH,

The same goes for the actual fin material. It was no longer apparent what the fins were originally made from, and since it had been reduced to a flaking, crumbling, mess that looked like rust, I assumed it was rust. Sorry if I mislead someone.

I did some reading on the web on the subject and it seems Copper-Brass radiators are trying to make a come back. The new units have tubes with about a third the wall thickness and fins about half the thickness of the old ones. All to improve heat transfer and save weight and cost, with a design life of 10 years. Sounds like a very delicate item to have out front in the air stream, especially up here in the Northeast with our annual sandstorm season that lasts from December until May. Hail and even raindrops at typical highway speeds might prove dangerous.

Well, good luck, Jim
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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2004, 12:05 PM
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Actually instead of more air hose I may throw a bag over my new K&N and try a garden hose to clean it out. My dad's tractors always get clogged breathing all of that stuff in and just normal water pressure always seems to do a better job cleaning it than air, I'd imagine with the well pumping a max of 65psi that it shouldn't do any damage with this pressure.
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2004, 01:27 PM
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To properly clean the radiator, it is mandatory to remove it from the vehicle. After getting it out, which is not difficult, lay it flat on a table with supports under the tanks. Then use a cleaner on the fins. I have used Dow foaming bathroom cleaner for this purpose. It is rather benign and cannot hurt the fins or the tubes. I would prefer to find a more powerful chemical that would dissolve some of the organic matter without damaging the tubes, but have been unsuccessful to date. After the cleaner has worked for about 30 minutes, then blow the fins clear with compressed air. Repeat this process once or twice and the fins will be 75% better than they were. With a better chemical, they could get 90% clean, without the need to replace the radiator.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2004, 06:39 PM
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I had a '70 Maverick many many years ago and I had trouble with it always running hot no matter how clean the radiator was. The cooling system was in top shape otherwise. I was told by my father that even though the radiator was clean it was possible that the thermal efficiency was gone from the original radiator, basically that it was "worn out". I got a new radiator for it and it never ran hot ever again. I guess it was possible for a radiator to "wear out" though I have never read anything about that it was possible.
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2004, 07:46 PM
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Well it sounds like yours must have had a bad scaling problem inside of the tubes in the radiator lietuviai, so while it appeared clean on the outside it wasn't on the inside. I believe the end tanks can be pulled and the radiator can be rodded out (run water through the opposite direction as the cleaning rods until clean).

I ended up just using a garden hose with a jet nozzle on it today to clear it out. I kept spraying at different angles until the concrete below remained clean. Perhaps this fall I'll take it out and examine its condition, if it isn't corroding badly I'll just comb the fins and clean it out very thoroughly. For now I'm sure it'll suffice and there will be no more 95-100*C temperatures which is all I was looking for. However as my car almost hit 100*C I don't recall the hearing the fan kick on so my fan clutch probably isn't any good.
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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2004, 01:28 PM
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No I don't think that I had a scaling problem. I even used pool acid mixtures to clean the old radiator. The inside of that radiator was bright yellow after a good cleaning.
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84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2004, 01:04 PM
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Combing the fins

Jeff,
How did you comb the fins? The radiator on my 91 300e unfortunately had a brief meeting with the fan when my daughter rearended another car, and some of the fins need to be straightened. I have removed the radiator from the car, and wil l need to replace a hose and the fan shrowd. Thanks.
Richard
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2004, 04:04 PM
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Been there..done that

300CD started running hot on the highway..new thermostat didn't help so suspected the radiator. Pulling it turned out to be a real pain since the oil cooler bolts were frozen and I couldn't pull the whole thing as an assembly because the top oil line was frozen. Finally got it out and you couldn't even see through it because of the sand, etc. Spent 4 hours screwing with it with air hose, detergent, water hose, etc...that cleared about 1/2 of it out. 10 minutes of delicate work with a high pressure washer did the trick. Reinstalled everything only to get a dribble of fresh antifreeze from somewhere in the lower corner. Ordered a brand new radiator for $200 which solved the problem. Wasted 6 hours of my only day off on a 20 year old radiator...as usual, your actual mileage may vary
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2004, 05:42 PM
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It turns out that my problem was not caused by this at all but by cleaning it I definetly added some life to my radiator. I actually have a new thermostat on the way, I'm hoping this will take care of the problem once and for all.

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Mercedes W123 DIY pages are now located here.
1983 / 1984 300D Sold
2000 CLK430 Cabriolet ~58k Sold
2005 Avalanche 4x4 ~66k
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