Future of Diesels in America - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Dana B. · #1 02-17-2004, 10:19 AM

Best article on diesels I've read to date. From the March issue of Car & Driver. Note the MB review:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=7816&page_number=1

#2 02-17-2004, 11:59 AM

Hey!!! I am highly offended by this remark:

"the stench and sloth of Mercedes and VW diesels of the '70s and '80s"

I happen to love the smell of my MB diesel!!!!

Ha!

wolf_walker · #3 02-17-2004, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GoWolfpack
Hey!!! I am highly offended by this remark:

"the stench and sloth of Mercedes and VW diesels of the '70s and '80s"

I happen to love the smell of my MB diesel!!!!

Ha!

My thoughts exactly, twice!

And I'm sorry if it's not running 14's in the quarter, but the 300D turbo's are not exactly "slow".

Hatterasguy · #4 02-17-2004, 12:30 PM

I read that issue and didn't realy like that remark either. But remember this is Car and Driver, anything thats not an M3 they hate. They also dislike Mercedes. I personaly don't think diesels will ever become popular in this country, unless gas goes to $4+ a gallon.

#5 02-17-2004, 12:42 PM

Hi there, my 300D is not slow either, in fact, the old one is quite peppy if in good tune. On most roads, it can and will rival much more modern/newer cars, yes even BMW. Not only that, it can shuttle you from Delaware to the East Side of NYC in two hours flat on a little more than a quarter tank. Try that in you cherry red M3.

mholbrook · #6 02-17-2004, 05:06 PM

I think I love the "Sloth" more than the "Stench" but it is pretty close to call.

Very Sloth'ly yours,

Mike Holbrook
Spring Valley, CA

God I love the smell of "Stench" in the morning. 5 diesels on my block and all up and about early in the AM.

#7 02-17-2004, 06:05 PM

Hi all.

I'm confused.

What does this all mean.

Quote:

And there's one more challenge facing diesels
on this continent: dirty fuel. All the known
technical solutions for cleaning up diesel
emissions require special catalytic converters
containing precious metals and other materials
that are damaged by sulfur, so meeting those
120,000-mile emissions targets in the U.S.,
where the sulfur content of diesel fuel ranges
from an average of about 140 parts per million
(ppm) by weight in California to 340 ppm in the
rest of the country, is much more difficult than
it is in Europe, where sulfur levels are as low
as 10 ppm in Sweden and Germany. Clean fuel arrives
here in 2006, when the legal limit drops to 15 ppm
nationwide. Giving diesel cars a future in this country
will require new catalytic-converter technology,
new approaches to reduce emissions in the cylinder,
cleaner fuel, or (most likely) all the above.

So, are passenger-car diesels doomed in the U.S.?
General Motors seems to think so. Despite the General's
copious experience developing diesel engines in Europe,
powertrain vice-president Tom Stephens does not believe
the emissions durability hurdles can be cleared in the
near term, so rather than making the investment to tool
up for new diesel engines in a market where customer
acceptance of diesels is an unknown, GM is developing
several different hybrid drivetrains. We had trouble
finding anyone in Detroit who was willing to say, "Yessiree,
we've cracked the diesel emissions problem and we're coming
to market." DaimlerChrysler will introduce diesel versions of
the Jeep Liberty and Mercedes E320 this year, and Ford has
announced plans to bring a Focus diesel to market in 2005 or
so, but none of these vehicles will be available in California,
nor will any of VW's TDI diesels, so their continued sale in
the U.S. is by no means certain beyond the Tier II phase-in
period (it ends in '07 for cars and '09 for trucks) when the
whole nation has to meet the current CARB emissions limits.

Quote:

So, do diesels stand a chance of elbowing hybrids
off the front page of your newspaper's auto section
any time soon? If left to sell on their merits alone,
we think they certainly might. Absent the gravel-grinder
noise, smoke-screen emissions, and lethargic performance
of diesels past, the best modern ones should be able to
command a sizable price premium based solely on their
superior performance, with their fuel-economy advantage
thrown in for free.

But for now diesel cars are effectively outlawed in California,
and they'll be run out of the rest of the country in a few years
unless the white knights at Bosch and other suppliers and
manufacturers can engineer a reprieve. And even then,
diesels' success will depend on whether the hardware required
to meet long-term compliance can be had for less than the cost
of the electric motors, battery packs, and high-voltage controller
hardware that go into a hybrid with similar performance.
Presuming they can, we think the all-internal-combustion option
is best suited to 200,000 miles' worth of hill-and-dale,
sea-to-sea American-style driving.

Does this mean that by 2009 we all have to get rid
of our beloved diesels?
I just can't see this happening,just to many people
that depend on their cars,pick-ups and trucks to just
say well now you have to junk your vehicle because
it is a diesel and it won't pass the emissions test.

Also many businesses count on these vehicles.
I'm going to start my own business and it will involve
diesel powered vehicles.
I don't want to end up having to close the business,
or buy gasoline powered vehicles and have higher
fuel expenses.

As said I'm confused so I might be reading this wrong.

Louis.

wolf_walker · #8 02-18-2004, 12:12 AM

I imagine it applies only to new vehicles, they will have to meet the new specs. Old diesels are legal in Kalifornia now, but you either almost or completly cannot buy a new one right now.

They would quite litteraly have to take me out of my diesel at gunpoint to be frank about it.

DslBnz · #9 02-18-2004, 12:25 AM

Wait I read the part about where the CDI trails off on acceleration. I don't like that, I like constant power.

The old E300 turbodiesel has a torque curve that is flat to near redline. Constant power up until 130 mph can be felt(from other member's voiced experience), while the CDI takes its time after 80 mph.

I love the OM60x'ers for their flat torque curves. Once the turbo winds up the curve is flat until redline!

Of course that car is PERFECT for American roads due to its incredible straight-line performance. Probably shifts early too, to take advantage of the massive torque of course.

BTW, what would be the fuel economy on a CDI engine at 130 mph?

#10 02-18-2004, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DslBnz
BTW, what would be the fuel economy on a CDI engine at 130 mph?

Better than any of our 616, 617, 601-2-3, or 606 at 130mph!