Here's one for you. I'm putting a clutch in the old 240D this weekend. Because I don't have a lift, just a floorjack jackstands and ramps, I'm considering pulling the motor to change the clutch. Here's why:

o Of course, on these cars the hood comes up out of the way, you don't have to unbolt it.

o I have a walking beam in my shop, with a chain hoist and one of those engine beams with a crank to move the fulcrum for balancing the motor.

o To me the hardest part of pulling the motor, is taking off the a/c compressor and wiring it out of the way, everything else is a piece o' cake.

o I have to pull the bellhousing to motor bolts either way.

o Since I don't have a full car lift, working under the car is frustrating, I can never get it high enough to have room on a creeper, and walking on my shoulders wears me out.

o The clutch itself is easier to change while standing up.

o It could use a pair of motor mounts anyway.

Any thoughts? Am I crazy, (I guess we already know the answer to that anyway) or is this easier than trying to get in the tight quarters for the flex disk bolts, the linkage, the clutch cylinder, the speedo cable, etc. ?

Thanks for the comments,

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Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

The flat rate time for engine R&R is 7.5hr & the trans is 3.5hr so go figure.

M.B. Doc,

Is the flat rate for changing an engine, accessories moved to a different engine etc, or just for it to come up with everything left on it and then dropped back in?

Thanks for the quick and insightful response.
Larry

Hmmmmmmm, doing it from the top seems like alot more work to me. On a 123 chassis 240, you can easily remove the top bellhousing and starter bolts from above. Removing the trans on this car is really easy. I would suggest you get some taller (heavy duty) jackstands and lay on a piece of about 4x4 carpet scap instead of a creeper. The carpet allows you to be lower and won't want to move around like a creeper will. Oh,I would also suggest that you get a "helper" to hold the trans while you remove & reinstall it. It isn't real heavy, but an extra pair of hands will make it go faster.

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Very good thoughts. I have no helper. I wouldn't even consider doing this from the top, except the last two times of put a clutch in this car I was exhausted and frustrated. The transmission is relatively light, but wrestling it around without enough room underneath is just frustrating.

I pulled the motor out of a donor car a few months ago, changed accessories around and other things, then pulled the motor out of the recieving car, and then put the other motor in. It was no problem and no frustration. I have better facilities to work with doing it from the top.

Remember, I'm just going to raise the engine up, rotate it around to change the clutch, then spin it around and stab it back in.

I'm still interested to know what all the 7.5 hour flat rate on engine R&R entails.

Thanks a bunch for the feedback, it looks more and more like I'll spend Saturday on my back instead of on my feet.



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Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

Larry,

Re: your having no helper. Methinks this is an ideal time to get to know your daughter's boyfriend a little better.

Just a thought.

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John J. Meadows
'83 300D 3.0L 260k mi.
'85 190E 2.3L 99k mi.

darius,

And a very good thought it is. He is a good hardworking kid though and works weekends.

Thanks for the thought and please keep them coming.

Larry

Larry
If you're working by yourself with a home setup (having the beam is very nice) I think your first instinct to pull the motor is the correct one. Even if it takes longer you're more comfortable and you enjoy the experience a lot more. If it's no fun then it's better to pay somebory else anyway.
You can also easily pull the flywheel and replace the rear crank seal while the motor is out.
I think the pro's are right from their perspective but they are set up so much better and they've done this fifty or a hundred times whereas with us do it yourself types it's a little bit more of an adventure into unknown territory.
The experience I'm drawing on for what it's worth is maybe four Volvo 240D clutches and a couple of pickup truck clutches and five or six Saab and japanese car clutches over the past twenty years.
If it was me I'd pull the motor and also replace the oil pan gasket and depending on the mileage of the car take a look at the rod and main bearings, especially the rod bearings.
This stuff is easy when the motor is out of the car.
However you do it - wish you luck and a smooth repair job.
Harvey

Harvey,

Thanks for the response. The sad thing is that I have an interim motor in the car, since February. I've had plenty of time to repair the other motor and haven't gotten it done, or I'd have a fresh motor to go back in and kill two birds with one stone. So this will be the clutch job only, and maybe motor mounts while I'm there.

Thanks again and have a great day,
Larry

Larry--Go to Sears and Buy some hi strength ramps, the kind with Bracing on them. These ramps come in two pieces: The platform, and the ramp you drive up. Actually buy four--they are only $50 a pair.
Heres the Trick. Get some pressure treated wood planks 16" wide, 3 foot long, 6" thick and place under the platform part of ramp to make them even higher.. When you drive the car up the ramp, you should have a good 30" clearance.
So that you have a STABLE SAFE ARRANGEMENT, jack the rear of the car up and place on the Ramps with Boards also. NOTE: These ramps have crowns on them to prevent car from rolling.

In the spirit of philanthropic experimentation - go at it from the top and post results...

Harvey, I just wanted to let you know that removing the flywheel does not give you access to the rear seal on the old 615 &617 diesels. These engines use a "rope style" seal that sits around the crankshaft in a groove in the block and oil pan.
The rear seal on the gas v-8 engines is what you may have been thinking of.

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Thanks Alain I was thinking of gas v8's or straight fours. If you had the oil pan off anyway to renew the gasket couldn't you do the seal? The oil pan - that's in two pieces isn't it - maybe all that would be too much hassle it the object was to replace a clutch.
Harvey

It was suggested that I do it from the top and post results.

I started at 7:10 this morning. I pulled the engine up, spun it around to one side and changed the clutch, and then changed the motor mounts, other than forgetting the exhaust pipe and trying to detemine why the engine wouldn't come out, it all went smooth. This engine has only been in the car a few months, so it was all familiar and my chain hoist balance beam was even set up with everything on it and at the right balance point.

I had everything back together and pouring coolant in it at 12:20, so this was about five hours, ten minutes. I went in at that time and watched the Brickyard 400, got some lunch and went back out to finish up. I had gotten the transmission mount as well so I put it in and thought it would be a good time to flush and bleed the clutch hydraulic system. My daughter helped me and I ended up spending about another one hour and fifteen minutes.

Although I'm tired, there was no frustration involved, this is an easy job on a Euro, manual transmission 240D. There is no oil cooler to mess with, the only advantage of that is one you're working on the car, I really need an oil cooler in my climate.

So, all's well with the 240D except I now have to get off my duff and build a motor for it. The interim motor is doing okay, but uses a lot of oil, about 700 miles to the quart.

If I were doing this for a living, I suppose I would not have taken this approach, but if I were to have to put another clutch in it, I would do it from the top. I'm equipped better to do it this way, and I'm not rolling the creeper over droplight cords and getting up and down for tools all the time.

Also, I had moved my daughters car out of the back of my shop building and did this job there. I'm set up well there and I'm right in front of the toolbox, since I was on my feet most of the time, it was much easier to keep track of my tools, because the tool box was at arms reach.

Also, I used air tools taking everything part, but not much when putting everything back together.

Thanks for all the comments and feedback, I'm gonna get some rest now,


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Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

[This message has been edited by LarryBible (edited 08-06-2000).]

Good for you Larry and don't burn too much rubber with that new clutch.
Harvey