MB 617TD into a Ford box van.... Insane? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rwthomas1 · #1 03-23-2004, 07:46 PM

Hey all,
I am currently looking for a small 10-12ft, single rear wheel box van for my carpentry/construction business as I have outgrown my pickup. Looking at new and used box vans in this size there are no diesels to be had. All the diesels are 16+ft, dual rear wheel and way bigger (and more expensive) than I need. I might have to go with a gasser but that scares me as gas is predicted to hit $2.50/gallon here soon. If things get that bad I plan on getting into biodiesel. So..... I came across a 93 Ford with a bad straight-6 motor in it that is configured the way I want it. Gee, where can I find a inline diesel with a front oil sump configuration for cheap...? There are quite a few 617's in the boneyards around here since the salt eats the rest of the cars. The question here is will a 617TD and the MB autotrans pull 7-8K around, and survive doing it? V8 radiators, aftermarket oil and tranny coolers should adapt quite easily. I have done custom swaps before so I know how to make engine mounts, brackets, etc. The hardest part might be getting the speedo to hook up! Yes I realize it will be slow. I'm not looking for performance just reliability, something better than 8mpg and the ability to make my own fuel if needed. Am I certifiable? Thanks, RT

coachgeo · #2 03-23-2004, 07:56 PM

diesel ambulances can be found. Ones that have been cut loose from the fleet. I bet those would be perfect for you. Look hard. The diesel box vans and box trucks are usually a little cheaper

lietuviai · #3 03-23-2004, 08:26 PM

As far as I know Ford put diesels in their small box van (van type cab) chassis. In fact I remember renting one from a rental company a few years back that had the diesel engine in it. It had plenty of power and I got around 16 MPG's with it and that was loaded with furniture. Not great but I don' t think you'd get too much better fuel economy with a 617 turbo engine and you certainly won't have much power to haul stuff around. One thing though, stay away from the Ford 6.9L, not that you may even find one anymore, their blocks were prone to cracking.

Wasuchi · #4 03-23-2004, 09:19 PM

I've never heard of a 6.9 with a cracked block. They can leak around the block heater but it's usually repairable from what I've seen. My parent's had one (in a truck) and put over 350K on it with little problems other than the IP. The 7.3's were prone to cavitaion problems if not taken care of. Overall I think that the ford van would probably your best bet and there should be lots of them.

kerry · #5 03-23-2004, 10:00 PM

My 409d is a big van with the 617 5spd. Gets 17mpg and quite peppy but the top speed is around 68mph. It probably has a 4:11 rear end. I have dual rear wheels but the 209 or 309's had single rear wheels. There was an older 309d (the bus version with a non-617 engine I think) on ebay a few weeks ago in Colorado Springs. Opening bid 5k. No bids at end of auction I believe.
There were used Sprinters on Ebay last week for around 15k opening bid. I don't know what they sold for but a dealer had 3 up for auction.

lietuviai · #6 03-23-2004, 10:03 PM

I've heard of many incedents of cracked 6.9 blocks which occured around the freeze plug areas. You can find more on this if you did a search with one the internet search engines.

The Warden · #7 03-23-2004, 11:07 PM

The crack in the 6.9l block was a cast flaw and was corrected midway through the 1985 model year. Even still, it's generally believed tha tyou can minimize the risk of a crack on an earlier block if you don't use the block heater.

Also, even given that, it's not all that common...and it is repairable without completely rebuilding the engine (as you would need to on a 7.3l that's succumbed to cavitation). For that reason, I'd actually take a 6.9l over a 7.3l IDI, unless I knew that the SCA's were kept up...

Just my $.02...also, I would venture to guess that most SRW box vans are 1/2 tons, and Ford didn't offer diesels in their half-ton trucks; the suspension can't reliably hold the weight. OTOH, switch to 3/4 ton springs and wiht a 2WD, you should be good to go.

IMHO you'd be best off either finding a Ford IDI or planning to swap one in. Then you wouldn't have to worry about custom fabrication or anything like that. Given the sort of strain the 617 would be under, I would venture to guess that mileage would be similar, as well.

Good luck!

#8 03-24-2004, 09:01 AM

Fords generally have a big, heavy, one-piece drive shaft designed to slide in and out of the trans rear seal as the rear axle's movements require -- you will have to take the front half of the M-B shaft and the center support bearing and adapt the shortened Ford shaft to the back part of the M-B shaft, because the weight of the Ford shaft would probably be too much for the M-B transmission casting to support, even if you could adapt the Ford sealing system. Furthermore, those M-B driveshaft parts might just be the weakest link in so far as dealing with such a heavy gross weight is concerned.

#9 03-24-2004, 09:23 AM

The driveshaft issue can be worked around relatively easily with a knowledgable driveshaft shop to help.

Ford used a driveshaft in some four wheel drives that did not have a slip yoke. There was a splined area in the driveshaft itself that allowed it to change length. This could be relatively easily adapted to bolt to a flex disk.

The 617 would pull the load if you use a low rear axle ratio AND are VERY patient driver.

Good luck,

kerry · #10 03-24-2004, 09:36 AM

You'd probably want to put the MB truck 4 or preferably 5spd in it.
They show up pretty regularly on European Ebay. Or, you could find a junkyard over there willing to ship.

coachgeo · #11 03-24-2004, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kerry edwards
My 409d is a big van with the 617 5spd. ...

Kerry, have you found any differences in your Van's 617 than in the cars? I hear they use a different injector to accomidate the different needs of the engine compared to the cars.

If so I wonder if the IP is timing is setting is differently too?

Could the 5speed from a truck be put in a car? hmmmmm

kerry · #12 03-24-2004, 10:58 AM

I've heard that about the IP and injectors also, but can't confirm it. The intake manifold is different to fit in the space, as is the oil fill and water pump. Oil filter housing points down and back.
Don't know what if any the differences are between car and truck 5 spd's.

I just remembered that someone on the Yahoo Sprinter list just totaled their Sprinter. Find that person and the junkyard the van went to and pull the engine and tranny along with electronics and you'll have yourself quite a powerplant.

coachgeo · #13 03-24-2004, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kerry edwards
...
I just remembered that someone on the Yahoo Sprinter list just totaled their Sprinter. Find that person and the junkyard the van went to and pull the engine and tranny along with electronics and you'll have yourself quite a powerplant.

yeah....... a sprinter engine would be killer in my Unimog.

Of my two 617A's the first one (and best motor) is in my Unimog. This was a transplanted motor. This is why I was looking into the van 617 specs/parts cause the van would match the loads of the Mog's engine better than specs/parts of a 300xx car.

dieseldiehard · #14 03-24-2004, 06:53 PM

In case someone is interested in a diesel van (listed under sprinter) project, there is something on eBay you might want to checkout this "sleeper" item:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63740&item=2468609641
Doesn't state what type of engine is in it. It hasn't ever been registered so that could require some unusual paperwork with local DMV staff! too bad they didn't take more pictures!
DDH

rwthomas1 · #15 03-24-2004, 11:09 PM

Kerry, what the heck is a 409D? RT