CAT ELC in an OM617?

[The Warden]

Hello!

I know that regarding coolant fills, the "standard" on this board is to use the factory coolant. So, I get to deviate from that a bit...

I'm considering switching coolant to the Caterpillar Extended-Life Coolant in my truck. In order to make life easier, it'd be real nice if I could use this stuff in the car as well. Has anyone attempted this? If so, how was it?

Here's some information on ELC, and here's some more.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[P.E.Haiges]

Warden,

Why not go all the way and put in Evans waterless?

P E H

[The Warden]

PEH, there's an anti-cavitation additive that I need to put in the coolant for my truck (while cavitation isn't as big of a problem with the 6.9l as it is with the 7.3l IDI, it is still something to be concerned about, especially in a higher-mileage engine). The big advantage with the ELC is that the SCA is already integrated into the coolant, and is designed to break down very slowly...CAT recommends that the coolant be replaced every 600K miles or every 6 years.

I'll admit to not knowing that much abou the Evans coolant, although if it's not a low-silicate coolant, I actually can't use it in the truck...

Thanks!

[rwthomas1]

Warden,
I am running Rotella ELC in my MB with no issues. I figure it meets every spec known to man and is made for diesels. I haven't converted the truck yet but that's next. I see no reason why the Cat version would be any different. In old diesel MB's I'm sure the formulation is overkill. RT

[psfred]

The only real concern is compatibility with the hose material. No one needs seeping radiator hoses.....

Peter

[notlostmaybe]

i didnt read anything that says this coolant protects aluminum.
heavy construction equiptment might have no aluminum at all
excepting radiator fins.
with evans waterless coolant in a non pressuried system there
would be no cavitation.
cavitation is a surface metal reaction to a very strong vacuum,
where molecues are phyically pulled off. if the ford coolant
system, pressuried at 15-30psi is damaged by cavitation, then
they must have used really poor quality metal (aluminum?)

don

[The Warden]

Re: cavitation, weak metal isn't the problem; lack of metal is. It's mainly a problem with the 7.3l IDI, because a 7.3l is essentially a bored-out 6.9l, and they didn't take cylinder wall thickness into account. As a result, to make a long story short, the cylinder wall flexes a very minor amount with each power stroke, and when the wall returns to its normal state, it briefly creates a vacuum that the coolant rushs in to fill up. As such, the coolant hits the cylinder wall, and over the years, pinholes eventually form allowing coolant to get into the cylinder, eventually hydrolocking the cylinder. On the 7.3l IDI, a cavitation failure typically happens around the 200,000 mile mark (although some people have 300K miles without using SCA's and haven't have a problem, and some people have experienced failures as early as 60K miles). The SCA's act as a sacrifical goat so that the coolant can beat on the SCA's that coat the cylinder walls instead of beating on the walls themselves. The good news is, if the SCA's are properly kept up, cavitation is no longer a problem.

One of the nice things about the ELC is that apparently their version of the SCA's don't break down nearly as fast as the add-in SCA's do; you do have to add in a small bottle of stuff from Caterpillar halfway through the coolant's lifespan (after 300K miles or 3 years).

Again, this isn't as big of an issue with the 6.9l, but it has happened, so IMHO it's better to be safe than sorry.

Also, I do remember seeing in one of the documentations that I linked to that ELC is aluminum-compatible; in fact, one of the FAQ's addressed the belief that ELC could damage aluminum and they successfully shot that down.

I repeat the earlier question: is the Evans coolant compatible with the SCA's? The SCA's require a low-silicate coolant to work properly.

RT, BTW, it looks like the Rotella, the Texaco, and the Cat ELC are identical in every way except price (Cat's is made by Chevron/Texaco, and Shell owns them!). Someone on TDS told me that he's getting ELC from a Caterpillar dealer for less than $7/gallon, compared to $12-$14/gallon for the Texaco stuff and $9/gallon for the Rotella stuff...

[79-240d-project]

I am using Fleetguard 50/50 premix. If it's good enough for my Cummins Turbo Diesel, it's good enough for my MB.

[psfred]

The corrosion problem with aluminum isn't due to the "quality" of the metal, it's a physical electrical phenomenon. The different metals in the presence of conducting (ion containing) water form a battery, and the aluminum gets oxidized to aluminum salts.

All MB engines have aluminum parts (water pump housing and thermostat housing on 615/616/617 engines), and if you don't have good anticorrosion coolant, they will perforate pretty fast.

Peter

[The Warden]

Aha! Looks like we both missed this paragraph the first time around...I asked someone on the Ford site, and he pointed it out to me...so, it looks like it will work

BTW, this was on the second page of the first link I posted in my first post, on the left side.

[artpb]

Ph is also important. Otherwise your plastic radiator parts will look like they spent time in an ill maintained swimming pool. Probably the biggest reason for broken necks on our radiators is improper Ph of the coolant.

Art

[The Warden]

So, what PH is ideal for the plastic?

The ELC has a PH of 8.1-8.9 (and is a pre-mix, so don't have to worry about differences in water)

[artpb]

A coolant ph of 7.0 would be ideal and is neutral. Not acidic/not alkaline. Pool supply stores sell test strips for testing ph. The mercedes gold antifreeze should yield a ph under 7.5 when mixed with water. Also, adding water wetter will not change the ph adversely.

art

[wolf_walker]

Gee I miss being able to just stick green coolant at 50/50 with water in whatever, change it every couple years and not worry about it. Why does everything seem so complicated anymore?


I've seen the results of cavitation in the Ford first hand. Not pretty.

[R Leo]

Originally posted by notlostmaybe

with evans waterless coolant in a non pressuried system there
would be no cavitation.

What?

cav.i.ta.tion \ kav' i ta' shun \ n [1. the rapid formation and collapse of vapor pockets in a flowing liquid in regions of very low pressure. 2. such a pocket formed.] (Webster)

Since cavitation occurs when the vapor pressure of a liquid drops to a point at which it boils or 'vaporizes' on a microscopic scale, reducing the static pressure of the cooling system should theoretically increase the chances for cavitation. I suspect the real reason that Evans coolant inhibits cavitation is not the unpressurized state of the cooling system but that it has an intrinsically higher boiling point (ie vapor pressure).