Just brainstorming here for future reference. If I understand correctly an 83 300D "Euro. Model" had no vaccum assist door locks and also did not have some other simular american niceties. Of course head light differences too.

Well...... Im thinking ahead about solving hard shift problems, and other vaccum related problems etc.. Was wondering if maybe converting some things to work simpler like a Euro models do, might be wise. For example; didnt the euro models have crank windows? Not sure how I could easly cheaply convert to crank windows but I could see maybe change the switches on the console that opperate the window motors to simple electric switches connected "Directly" to each window motors instead of some vaccum arrangement. Also I could just plug up the vaccume assit door lock mechanisms. Last time I checked I could reach over and unlock doors for my friends. Heck I can even use a key. Besides...... I dont even know how to work the auto lock system in my 300D. Maybe its not working right? My Datsun diesel has a cable operated trunk and gas door open mechanism. Maybe I could coppy that system and put it on the MB?

Anyway, most importantly..... what about the Tranny shift mechanisim for the Euro automatics. Is it a vaccum set up like the american auto trannies? If not...... how was their shift system arranged? If its non vaccum could Euro parts be ordered and installed on one of our Americanized 300D's? Could some system off a different kind of automatic tranny be used?

__________________
"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way".
by JerryBro

The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue

My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair

62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels

Euro models came with a long option list so you could outfit one as a barebones car or a car with more features than were available in the US. Euro cars can be found with speed controlled vacuum central locks, electric windows, ACC, sedans with rear leveling suspension, etc. Many Euro cars have vacuum headlight level adjustment. Euro ATs use the same vacuum signal to the modulator. In fact the rarest Euro option seems to be the turbocharger.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

Hmmmmm. Electric windows; are they hardwired or via a vuccum switch?

Was hoping tranny arrangement was non vaccum but doubted I would be so lucky.

__________________
"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way".
by JerryBro

The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue

My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair

62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels

I thought that only wagons could be turbo-ed outside of north america?

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'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E

Coachgeo, the window switches have something to do with the vacuum??!? The last time i checked, my dad's 83 300D, I don't recall any vacuum system linked to the power windows. Only vacuum lines I saw: driver door had 3, 1 for the "lock" channel, 1 for then unlock channel, and one as vacuum source. The other doors had 2, one lock, one unlock.

As for the power windows, my uncle's European 380SE taxi was unique, crank windows for the front, electric for the back, and it also had a manual, and of course, the vacuum headlight adjustment.

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Jason

00 Subaru Legacy (fun wagon)
96 Nissan Sentra (disavowed)
82 300SD (garage queen, will run again hopefully)
87 300DT (Gone: 10/15/2010)

I may be wrong but I understood it that the switches on the consule were vaccum switches. In the door everything is electric but the switches on the consul have something to do with vacuum. I may be wrong.. wouldnt be the first time.

__________________
"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way".
by JerryBro

The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue

My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair

62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels

I see... well.. I haven't checked those switches, so i may be wrong too. I just realized you lived on the east coast. If you were out here on the west, I would love to get together and troubleshoot some vacuums :p

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Jason

00 Subaru Legacy (fun wagon)
96 Nissan Sentra (disavowed)
82 300SD (garage queen, will run again hopefully)
87 300DT (Gone: 10/15/2010)

We drive an '84 Euro 300D as well as an '85
300D made for the North American market. Furthermore, a friend of ours also as a Euro 300D. Based on these three cars, I can tell you the following:

1. Window switches are electric, and don't go spilling coffee into the works. However, both Euros I've seen have crank windows, which I much prefer. If you, too, prefer crank windows, you might consider finding four doors from an early 123, many of which did not have electric windows. Either enjoy a car of many colors or have the doors painted.

2. Some Euro 300D's have vacuum locks (my friend's) and some do not (ours).

3. Both Euro 300D's that I'm familiar with have manual transmissions ... horray!

4. Some Euro 300D's have manual sunroofs (my friend's) and some have no sunroof at all (ours, sigh).

5. Both Euro 300D's have inaccurate speedometers, our friend's about 15% fast and ours about 15% slow. Go figure.

6. Both Euro 300D's have cloth seats, which are not so chilly in the wintertime but are nowhere near so comforable as the leather in our '85.

That's all that comes to mind this evening.


Phil

I ordered a window regulator for my 86 Euro 500SE and forget to tell Phil it had ele. windows I got a crank up regulator which is made from much thicker steel a sturdier unit all the way around.The door under the panel had all the holes for the crank up window all you need is rhe reulator and a window crank.it was about a third the cost of the ele. reg. .............

William Rogers..........

I have two Euro 240D's, one is the absolute cheapest bottom of the line and it still has vacuum locks. But WHY ON EARTH would you want to do away with them? They are VERY easy and cheap to fix. If you want to do away with them then just mechanically disconnect them.

Power windows are electric.

You will spend more effort converting all this stuff than you would simply fixing it when it breaks. I detest automatic doodads as much as anyone, but if I end with a car with all this junk on it, then I have made the commit to keep it working.

My Euro 240D that I and my son drove over a half million miles has hand crank windows, manual sunroof, manual heater/ac controls etc. The only gadget adder is an electric control for the passenger side rear view mirror which actually is quite useful.

All the manual stuff is one of the reasons the car was so trouble free for so long.

Good luck,

coachgeo,

Dead simple to switch over to manual windows. Pull the door panels, drop the electrical window down until you can get the rear bolt out through the little round opening. Take out all the bolts holding the electircal mechaism and remove it from door.

Oh! unscrew the electrical wiring at the little bus on the door and reconnect the ones from inside the car. Now remove everything.

The manual mechanism fits up inside and it's nice to have a friend hold the window glass just where you need it until you've got a couple of screws in place.

We've put manual windows in all our turbos in the front and left the electric in the rear so that at toll booths you can easily crank it down manually but on long trips and good weather you can crank open the front windows and lower the rear windows without stopping. Cuts down on the whumping air noise at speed.

Ben

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www.reproduce100s.com

Nearly everything except the basic operating controls, suspension and drivetrain were optional on the European cars. You could even order the windows electric in pairs, fronts or rears or both. Sunroofs were offered as manual or electric (our US 240D has a manual sunroof and manual windows), and A/C was offered as an option where the controls were manual, or for a load more money, the system could be automated (this is the system offered on the 300D in the US as standare while the 240D in the US got the manual controls). Euros had the choice of cloth, MB-Tex, Leather or Velour interiors. And alloy wheels were optional on all but the SLs. The 3 liter turbocharged Diesel engine was only available in a W123 chassis wagon in Europe, and they had a choice of 4 or 5 speed manuals, or automatics at a huge premium. I still have the ordering books for these machines from Europe that lists prices for all that stuff. On later cars with electric seats, once again you could get one or the other or both front seats "electrified" and that meant coughing up an additional $1300 for each seat at the time.

So, most of the W123s built for other than the US market were pretty simple. And robust. Too bad we don't think cars should be mostly cars anymore. Now they are basically a place to install electrically operated junk that would not exist if we did not think it needed to be in a car. Given the choice I cannot imagine spending $1300 to have a bunch of mostly idle motors built into my seats, to adjust it to my liking. Oh well, Jim

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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Shame there was no option for a 12 bolt rear, the front suspension from about a 77 chevy 1/2 ton, and a th400.

It'd have been almost perfect then.




As a side note, VW and Audi used vacuum locks as well I learned recently. Some 80's Jetta's seem to have had an electric vacuum pump much like the SD's. Near as I can tell VW never put that junk on there diesels..

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One more Radar Lover gone...
1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

JimSmith,

I enjoyed your post very much.

I would love to have been able to buy my C240 in a more basic dress as they are available in Europe. I was totally spoiled by driving my 240D for so many years and miles. The lack of all the falderol made for a very pleasant, simple and trouble free car.

In spite of what some believe, I really do have enough strength to crank a window handle or pull on a manual sunroof. Also in spite of what some might believe, I have enough sense to turn the temperature colder when I'm hot and warmer when I'm cold.

The first 203 car that I drove was in Germany in June 2000 when they were first introduced there. I even looked into buying one there because I could get it without as much gadgetry. Even if I could've imported it, it would have cost more than buying a car WITH the gadgetry in the US. Go figure.

Have a great day,