Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion > Diesel Performance Tuning

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 02-18-2020, 02:04 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
Propane injection! I'll do a little list of stuff I used when it's done. It's actually two systems in one. First stop is a Hobbs switch that actvates the power relay at 3 psi boost(adjustable if I need to) to avoid any accidental triggering under any circumstances. Then an arming switch for each of the two solenoids that control the two systems.
1. a simple BBQ grill regulator into a solenoid then plumbed up to just in front of the turbo, this is a low flow" fumigation" system that will automatically start at 3 psi anytime it's armed. This gives a bit of power, increased mileage and less smoke.
2. An adjustable turkey fryer type regulator set up on a full throttle or maybe a manual button for a power adder. This one you need to be cautious with. Too much and you can get detonation. Both will run in the same line from the trunk.

Wiyh a simple camping stove tank and valve I gave it a few shots and it really wakes the 617 up. I'd guess at least 25-35 hp. At highway speed in top gear it actually accelerates pretty briskly when you open it and full throttle. I'm waiting on my pyrometer to install it all, setting up the system and checking for leaks in the fittings. Need to make a wireing harness and switch panel to replace the ashtray.

I also found a home for this engine or possibly the one in my 300TDt. 1975 240d 4 speed w115 chassis. Perfect choice for the elcamino conversion I want to do with no fuel tank behind the seat. A little smaller and sportier, all my 450slc drift car suspension mods can be used to make this a fun capable daily I can throw **** in the back of. I did a little photo shop and proportions look good. I wouldn't go this low at all but I didn't want to do it on a stock nose up car. Staggered 16" rial n weaves will probably be the wheels. My car is a nice charcoal grey.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:54 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 37,359
To the OP. I have done a lot of towing things.

IMHO if you put in a good five speed od tranny you can tow whatever the car will feel safe with weight wise with the stock rear end.

If you feel it has to be changed you change the diff. later with minimal lost effort.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-18-2020, 07:04 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
To the OP. I have done a lot of towing things.

IMHO if you put in a good five speed od tranny you can tow whatever the car will feel safe with weight wise with the stock rear end.

If you feel it has to be changed you change the diff. later with minimal lost effort.
Well I'm kinda at a weird place with that 5 speed right now. I want to put a turbo 5cyl in this 240d 4 speed to be my local daily. With propane it makes enough power for me to have some fun but I don't think it's really up to towing a 3200lbs car on a dolly with tools and spares. I have my bus for that and I have a om603 and 6 speed combo that will be another drivetrain for my wagon or fintail. The Jeep 5 speed lm not sure on at the moment. I'd like to just get the 4 speed car put together and not worry about od right now. I need a three pedal daily asap. My diesel is basically free so..... I've got so many dxmn cars it's hard to decide. But I think this 240d is the right choice for now. It should bolt together with the correct 5 cyl mount arms. I've got motors. I've got all the suspension and subframes I can build separately with r107 brakes and cut springs, poly bushings, and have ready for a two day thrash to put it all in the car. Throttle and shutoff are the only question mark. But the 5 speed is tempting. I'll probably wait till I have the car with no motor in it to see about tunnel issues.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-18-2020, 07:54 PM
tbomachines's Avatar
ಠ_ಠ
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwd4evr View Post
Propane injection! I'll do a little list of stuff I used when it's done. It's actually two systems in one. First stop is a Hobbs switch that actvates the power relay at 3 psi boost(adjustable if I need to) to avoid any accidental triggering under any circumstances. Then an arming switch for each of the two solenoids that control the two systems.
1. a simple BBQ grill regulator into a solenoid then plumbed up to just in front of the turbo, this is a low flow" fumigation" system that will automatically start at 3 psi anytime it's armed. This gives a bit of power, increased mileage and less smoke.
2. An adjustable turkey fryer type regulator set up on a full throttle or maybe a manual button for a power adder. This one you need to be cautious with. Too much and you can get detonation. Both will run in the same line from the trunk.

Wiyh a simple camping stove tank and valve I gave it a few shots and it really wakes the 617 up. I'd guess at least 25-35 hp. At highway speed in top gear it actually accelerates pretty briskly when you open it and full throttle. I'm waiting on my pyrometer to install it all, setting up the system and checking for leaks in the fittings. Need to make a wireing harness and switch panel to replace the ashtray.

I also found a home for this engine or possibly the one in my 300TDt. 1975 240d 4 speed w115 chassis. Perfect choice for the elcamino conversion I want to do with no fuel tank behind the seat. A little smaller and sportier, all my 450slc drift car suspension mods can be used to make this a fun capable daily I can throw **** in the back of. I did a little photo shop and proportions look good. I wouldn't go this low at all but I didn't want to do it on a stock nose up car. Staggered 16" rial n weaves will probably be the wheels. My car is a nice charcoal grey.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
This is awesome!!
__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-19-2020, 02:09 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
Which part? I'm getting excited. My one issue the whole time with doing the truck conversion on the w126 was the fuel system. The tank behind the back seat kinda ruins the whole truck bed. Sure I could have moved the tank but it's not the best or safest thing to do. The w114 has the tank under the floor of the trunk. Perfect. Plus I am a way bigger fan of the w114 front end. The suspension is way more tunable and it's way lighter, and all the work I've done on my drift car learning what makes it do what is transferable. My drift car is too soft still so setting this car up the same should be perfect. Not positive what gear to run in it yet. I'm going to build the front subframe from an r/c107 for it then a rear from a c107 with polyurethane bushings and maybe antisquat control arms. I found engine mounts on eBay but they want a bit much. I'm hoping they accept my offer.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-19-2020, 10:56 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 37,359
The five cylinder into a 240 is well documented here. I have done it twice, and have converted several cars from auto to stick so when you narrow your focus down a bit we can give a list of things needed.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-19-2020, 03:26 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
In a w115 240 or w123? I'm putting this one together. It's a1975 240d w115. As of now I have found the 300dw115 motor mounts on eBay, but I've gotta talk him down off 38 and 55 for them I hope. So plan is thr stock 4 speed in it on the (edit 1984 wagon)300tdt om617. I can't recall what year it is this second. Not sure if the 300sd 84 85 exhaust he was talking about that would clear the framerail is the same in a 300tdt. So here's what I gather could be issues but don't know 100%.
1. Is the 617.952 300sd the same oil pan in my w123 wagon? Will I have clearance issues on the subframe with factory 5 cyl w115 mounts?

2. How much do the driveshaft and shift rods have to be shortened?

3. Is the stock rad and smaller oil cooler up to the job?

4. Will the AC compressor fit low driver side like it is stock on the 617.952? And will it jive with the older system ok?


5. Will my current 4 cyl pull knob GP power supply be sufficient for the 5cyl?

I figure I can rig a manual vaccum valve or a solenoid to kill it.

All I can think of at the moment.

Oh, so you reccomended having the torque converter and flexplate checked on the donor engine and have the 240d flywheel balanced the same? So mark them both at tdc to reinstall? Was the crank really balanced with the torque converter by Mercedes? That sounds crazy.



Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-21-2020, 03:40 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
Oh yeah! Need to build a plate and support arm to strap to the tank when it's in the trunk but the system works. I found this acetalyne regulator that is really high quality and easy to adjust a tiny bit at a time. I went for a quick ride and slowly crept up to like 5 psi static plus whatever the BBQ is putting in, I think 2 psi. The BBQ reg is set on the hobbs switch to come on at 3psi boost and I have a bump button hooked up for the big reg. It's adding significant power and I heard no unhappy noise or anything. I don't want to go any further until it's all mounted properly. I need a couple 90 fittings too.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-22-2020, 03:54 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
I can't wait to get this turbo om617 in a lighter car with a manual trans. It's gonna be great with the propane. I think I'm going to upgrade the turbo while I'm at it. Now that it's got the extra fuel I'm nervous about running it with uncontrolled boost spinning the crap out of the turbo over 17psi. I'm putting a simple valve boost adjuster in today for the time being. The propane really seems to clean up the smoke under acceleration. I'm just judging by cars headlights behind me but it's much less. The acceleration is night and day with the second system engaged and still very obvious with just the low pressure. I could probably put a kit together if anyone is interested.

On the swap side of it I have the 5cyl w114 mount arms on the way. I'm going to be stripping a 280slc to ship the drivetrain to a customer so I'll be building the subframes for the w114. I'm hoping to gey to the swap in a couple weeks. I can't bring myself to tearing apart my 300sd daily so the semi question able 617 from my wagon will probably be the engine that goes in it. It's just dumb to take apart the most reliable Mercedes I have. The wagon motor runs ok but has a little bobble at idle. It could be injectors or even just bad fuel. It's only run for like 10 minutes when I got it. Not vacuum system, charging system is dead thermostat is stuck. Plus the HVAC is tottaly hacked. So it's gonna need a bunch of work even if it stayed in the car. Being a rust free wagon it's a great project and may be home to the om603 and 6 speed eventually.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-24-2020, 01:59 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
The five cylinder into a 240 is well documented here. I have done it twice, and have converted several cars from auto to stick so when you narrow your focus down a bit we can give a list of things needed.
What drive shaft did you use putting a 5 cyl and 4 speed in the w114? I've found a part number(yellow circle,240d 3.0 4 speed) that crosses to a couple of other cars, but it doesn't say if they are also manual or auto. I. Actually have the correct part in my 450slc with the 4 speed conversion so at least I know the length I need. I'd love to just find a correct front half and not have to cut and weld then rebalance. I'm guessing there is no way to put the 617.910 filter housing easily on the 617.952?
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com

Last edited by rwd4evr; 02-24-2020 at 02:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-24-2020, 01:59 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
The five cylinder into a 240 is well documented here. I have done it twice, and have converted several cars from auto to stick so when you narrow your focus down a bit we can give a list of things needed.
I've done enough epc cross referencing to make your head spin. It looks like I can use my 240d rear DS half and a front half of a w114 4 speed car, or a whole 114 4 speed DS possibly. The benzcat.com epc version is pretty close to the real thing. I had to get fonzi to look on real epc to determine if some of the w114 cars listed that cross were actually 4 speed or auto. t walgamuth, can you throw me a bone like you said you would? Or even a link to the thread you said the swap was well documented? I can't find it.

Here is my plan so we're not confused.

Om617 from an 84 300TDt(617.952).

The 4 speed and flywheel that is currently in the 240d w114.117 (716.002/716.003).

I guess I'll be sticking with the 3.69 that's in it at least for now.
Things I know.
Need to shorten shift linkages.

Need a different front half or full driveshaft

Need to address oil filter housing.

Things to consider.

Concerns on rad being up to it.

Ac compressor clearance with new style driver bottom mount may be tight. Will the old style fit on the .952?

Was the converter really balanced with the flexplate on the .952 crank.

(Just now remember this crap)
Is the late .952 crank really not machined properly for a pilot bearing? I remember coming across this 8 years ago when I was planning the 4 speed into my first 300td.





Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com

Last edited by rwd4evr; 02-24-2020 at 06:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-29-2020, 04:34 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
I have a na 617 in a car I believe is a w115 engine possibly, I have to double-check. If it is a w115 original engine will the oil pan fit my 617.952 and then clear the crossmember without any issues.? T walgamuth says I the w115 chassis the rear engine face and trans stay in the same place so I won't need to shorten shifters and drive shaft. Is this correct? That will be a big help if so. Has anyone actually done this (617.952 in a w115 240d w/4 speed) with stock parts?

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-12-2020, 07:46 PM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
T walgamuth, you said the 4/5/6 cyl had the rear of the engine in the same place. Therefore the driveshaft would be the same with the same trans. Not the case. One
Is a 220d and one is a 280c. Damn. I didn't think it was possible but I was hoping. Granted I don't have a 5 cyl 300d to look at but the 5 cyl diesel and 6 cyl gas are almost the same size.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk
__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-13-2020, 07:48 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 37,359
Look at it from the bottom. Also the gas engine is different from the diesel. I never said the gas engine has the same driveshaft, (though I suspect it is).
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-16-2020, 11:15 AM
rwd4evr's Avatar
Master hull craftsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: delaware
Posts: 999
None of the 5 cyl diesel or 6 cyl share a driveshaft with a 240d. I find it very hard to believe that there would be this much space behind a 5 cyl engine as well. Looking at the subframe there is plenty of room for it to be shifted forward just like it would be in a w123 300d.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

__________________
WARNING!!! VINTAGE MERCEDES MAY MULTIPLY UNCONTROLABLY!!! I have tons of Sl/Slc parts w108 w111 w126 and more. E-mail me with needs
BirchsgarageMB@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page