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-   -   1985 300SD shop "truck" daily driver 5 speed project (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=395757)

rwd4evr 10-30-2018 11:07 PM

1985 300SD shop "truck" daily driver 5 speed project
 
I am tired of 12-18 mpg in my v8 mountaineer. It rides ****ty and handles bad. I need a wagon or pickup and wont deal with a w124 gas car though. So I picked up a prettty decent 300sd dirt cheap and have some plans. I have most of the info I need but I need some opinions and real world experience if possible.
The plan is to swap in an AX15 5 speed from a dodge Dakota. I have the adapter kit intended to put a om617 in a jeep. The gear ratios are almost identical in the transmissions plus a .79 OD in the ax15. I will be doing some towing with the car as much as a car in flat tow or a dolly, probably not a car on a trailer. It weighs almost as much as my mountaineer and has better brakes and suspension so I'm not concerned with that. It's not hard to build a class 3 hitch into the rear structure. I will also probably down the road a bit be chopping the back roof off and welding the rear doors shut to make it a pickup. A early s10 cap will fit pretty well.
So my questions are about power and gearing. Has anyone done any towing (or driving for that matter)with a turbo 617 with the 2.88 factory rear axle ratio changed? I have 3.07, 3.23, and 3.69 differentials available. 3.69 is dumb since it would actually end up as a 2.91 final with od. All the gear change threads I've found are NA cars and have power issues. I had s 85 300TDt which felt like it had plenty of power to pull more gear on the highway. So I could go with a 3.07 to get a little more off the line and considerable reduction in highway rpm or 3.23 which has a lsd(really makes me lean this way) and would really help with off the line towing my drift car or parts cars and would still reduce higway rpm with a 2.55 final drive in 5th. The only problem I'm worried about is if it can't pull od on the higway with a load in 5th I'll be increasing cruise rpm havling to run 4 th. So at that point should I just leave the stock gearing and get awesome everyday mileage and probably have to run 4th on the highway?
On top of that how about practical power increase in a om 617? I remember years ago hearing about larger elements being installed in a NA300d om617(which I have). Any input would be great. I miss driving a Mercedes everyday so it's time.

rwd4evr 10-31-2018 02:15 AM

Double post. Please delete this one.

strelnik 10-31-2018 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr (Post 3856458)
I am tired of 12-18 mpg in my v8 mountaineer. It rides ****ty and handles bad. I need a wagon or pickup and wont deal with a w124 gas car though. So I picked up a prettty decent 300sd dirt cheap and have some plans. I have most of the info I need but I need some opinions and real world experience if possible.
The plan is to swap in an AX15 5 speed from a dodge Dakota. I have the adapter kit intended to put a om617 in a jeep. The gear ratios are almost identical in the transmissions plus a .79 OD in the ax15. I will be doing some towing with the car as much as a car in flat tow or a dolly, probably not a car on a trailer. It weighs almost as much as my mountaineer and has better brakes and suspension so I'm not concerned with that. It's not hard to build a class 3 hitch into the rear structure. I will also probably down the road a bit be chopping the back roof off and welding the rear doors shut to make it a pickup. A early s10 cap will fit pretty well.
So my questions are about power and gearing. Has anyone done any towing (or driving for that matter)with a turbo 617 with the 2.88 factory rear axle ratio changed? I have 3.07, 3.23, and 3.69 differentials available. 3.69 is dumb since it would actually end up as a 2.91 final with od. All the gear change threads I've found are NA cars and have power issues. I had s 85 300TDt which felt like it had plenty of power to pull more gear on the highway. So I could go with a 3.07 to get a little more off the line and considerable reduction in highway rpm or 3.23 which has a lsd(really makes me lean this way) and would really help with off the line towing my drift car or parts cars and would still reduce higway rpm with a 2.55 final drive in 5th. The only problem I'm worried about is if it can't pull od on the higway with a load in 5th I'll be increasing cruise rpm havling to run 4 th. So at that point should I just leave the stock gearing and get awesome everyday mileage and probably have to run 4th on the highway?
On top of that how about practical power increase in a om 617? I remember years ago hearing about larger elements being installed in a NA300d om617(which I have). Any input would be great. I miss driving a Mercedes everyday so it's time.


I purchased a 1982 300SD from someone on this forum. It had a lightweight trailer hitch that would only pull a very small 1-7/8" ball + trailer.
I removed that hitch when I had the car's rear quarter and rear bumper painted. I can tell you that with the vehicle's current stock AT the car is responsive, even when loaded with 4 x 200lb passengers. I don't know if that helps, but though you should know.

I'd love to put an MT into my 617.951 in a 126 body. Don't know if anyone has done that.

rwd4evr 11-01-2018 02:17 AM

Thanks. Not really super helpful but i appreciate it. I had my old wagon with the same drive train loaded to the hilt plenty of times and it didn't really notice, when we're talking about towing another 3500 + pounds of car,dolly,tools,spares and all that is where I'm wondering. It's got a small receiver rated for 3500 so I'll probably load it up and take it for a drive late at night with less traffic to deal with and run it out on 495 up over a fairly steep bridge nearby to see. These autos are huge power sucking vampires though so it's not really a fair comparison. Anybody got power improvements for the 617? Bigger turbo? The horrible lag will be easier to deal with with a manual trans.

R-3350 11-01-2018 11:58 AM

the stock auto wont take too much more power but if your swapping in an ax15 thats another thing altogether. i might worry about the torque limits of the ax15 if you start making more power. as for actually making more power you can get a little more from the stock pump but if you want any real improvements you need to get a bigger IP and turbo. this applies doubly when towing with a manual since the long injection time of a maxed out stock pump pushes your egt's up quite quickly.

rwd4evr 11-01-2018 02:16 PM

Now were talking. I think the ax15 will handle a pretty good bit. They end up behind LS engines in jeeps which shock load is pretty rough and some mild hot rods. I would definitely not be bang shifting with a heavy load. So what are my pump options? Are stock injectors up to more flow? I have two na 617 to pirate parts from. Like I said, years back I was looking into more power for my 300TDt and found a guy doing larger elements in a na pump. I may have known what the pump designations were then (m pump etc.)but I've stuffed mass amounts of Mercedes knowledge into my head since then and none diesel really.

Simpler=Better 11-01-2018 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr (Post 3857091)
Now were talking. I think the ax15 will handle a pretty good bit. They end up behind LS engines in jeeps which shock load is pretty rough and some mild hot rods. I would definitely not be bang shifting with a heavy load. So what are my pump options? Are stock injectors up to more flow? I have two na 617 to pirate parts from. Like I said, years back I was looking into more power for my 300TDt and found a guy doing larger elements in a na pump. I may have known what the pump designations were then (m pump etc.)but I've stuffed mass amounts of Mercedes knowledge into my head since then and none diesel really.

Dieselmenken pumps are top notch, and around $1200 (some of that is shipping cost) and are worth the money. You will play games for years trying to be cheap.
Think of it this way: $1200 for at least +60hp fueling. That's $20/hp, which isn't bad at all. http://www.dieselmeken.se/

Diesel Pump UK sells manifolds, as does F-Tune. None are cheap.

NA intake manifolds flow better than turbo manifolds. If they're the straight NA manifold, you will have to space the turbo off the flange to clear the runners.

Is it an ASD or LSD rear? LSD rears are rare for w123s. If it's really an LSD rear, use that and adjust tire size for gearing compensation.

I built my own hitch on my old 300D. Pulled heavy loads at highway speeds with the auto and she never let me down.

Mine had a 2056V (variable vane turbo) swapped on, so boost was always instant. It was nice.

rwd4evr 11-01-2018 02:48 PM

So 60 plus hp I'm assuming with a bigger turbo? How much are you making with Ported head and all? Is there really a 200hp limit on rods I've read about? Im not tryng to be cheap but I spent 3x less on the car! I don't want too murder mileage completely either.

rwd4evr 11-02-2018 04:44 PM

The 3.23(or 3.27 I forget at the moment) lsd is in my 380SLC that has another desitiny. I actually have a 3.46 in the 300TD I forgot about too(gotta love a Mercedes junk yard in your yard). But I really like to spin both tires and welded diff and towing are not a fantastic idea( not saying I wouldn't do it though)I have two na 617. On is a from a w116 I believe but now in a w108 mess and a 300TD euro car. I'll have to look at them to determine which mani it is. How much weight would you say you were pulling? This is a w126 300SD Bynthe way too.

rwd4evr 11-02-2018 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik (Post 3856543)

I'd love to put an MT into my 617.951 in a 126 body. Don't know if anyone has done that.

Not sure either but my friend fonzi has a 280se 4 speed I was using for a while and it had sls delete with some stiffer springs and it feels like a completely different car. You can throw it around like a little sports car. 200 hp diesel w 5spped and killer mileage would get me past the fact the styling doesn't do that much for me. The auto and pillow ride kill these cars. A v8 manual would rock too. This diesel could make way for a m119 and manual if it can't do what I want it to eventually.

R-3350 11-03-2018 11:42 AM

200hp is not the limit of the rods at all. i am somewhere north of that now and the only thing stopping me from turning it up more is my transmission and the need for a bigger turbo. the issue is getting air into the engine. a holset hx35 should safely support 250-300 on a 617 with not horrible lag at least with a manual. i would of course fit the biggest intercooler you can and maybe consider water injection (not methanol since with the larger pump you wont need the extra fuel) for cooling if you will be towing. head work is good if you want the most out of it but i might not recommend it if your just aiming for a decently powerful tow rig.

Simpler=Better 11-05-2018 02:43 PM

I never dyno'd the car, I was broke as hell back then. Didn't get any more fuel than normal, I just pulled the ALDA to get more off-boost fuel.

I played with methanol sprayers, and they definitely made power, but really the right way to do it is take a deep breath and just buy a real injection pump. Sell off some of your extra wagon parts on eb*y.

Big tow #1-7ft x 10ft flat deck trailer (est 1500lbs empty, it was a redneck special) with a k440(360lbs) a zx600(450lbs), two beds, two dressers, all my tools (500lbs?), and the rest of the random crap when moving. So at least 3,000lbs.

Big tow#2-Uhaul box trailer that was bigger than the car (I don't know how they let me drive off with that one). Full of furniture but it was a giant sail slowing me down.

rwd4evr 11-07-2018 04:37 AM

Cool, good to know. So how was performance towing? How about fuel economy? Are there different cam profiles between NA and turbo? What about the heads too? My car has about 300,000. If I'm
Gonna start trying to make decent power I'm going to be freshening a head for sure at least.

R-3350 11-07-2018 11:07 AM

porting the head can help a lot especially if you are going further than just a bit more than stock power. the key to towing or any high load for a long time situation is a good intercooler, radiator, and oil cooler. as long as you can keep all your temps stable and your brakes are ok it shouldn't care what your towing. if you are interested in a ported head pm me i have rebuilt and ported a few now.

rwd4evr 11-07-2018 06:07 PM

Yeah that's possible. It is something I'd like to do myself but I have a lot of projects planned for this winter in my new shop, so I'm not sure what I'll get to. I'd like to do what I can with what I have for now and save up for a pump. First thing on the agenda is the manual swap l, that was the one thing I couldn't stand about my wagon. I actually bought a parts car to convert it to a four-speed with the 300 D parts but it needed everything besides the engine basically so I ended up selling it. Kinda regret that now. It wasn't as rusty as I thought and then prices went nuts on wagons. So maybe a bigger turbo on stock pump for now? I never "turned it up" on my last turbo since the trans was questionable and honestly I dont even remember what to do. I knew then like 5-6 years ago. At 300,000 oh miles would you be looking for a lower mile foundation to build for the future? Is the na head I have the same to rebuild?

rwd4evr 11-07-2018 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better (Post 3858207)
I never dyno'd the car, I was broke as hell back then. Didn't get any more fuel than normal, I just pulled the ALDA to get more off-boost fuel.

I played with methanol sprayers, and they definitely made power, but really the right way to do it is take a deep breath and just buy a real injection pump. Sell off some of your extra wagon parts on eb*y.

Big tow #1-7ft x 10ft flat deck trailer (est 1500lbs empty, it was a redneck special) with a k440(360lbs) a zx600(450lbs), two beds, two dressers, all my tools (500lbs?), and the rest of the random crap when moving. So at least 3,000lbs.

Big tow#2-Uhaul box trailer that was bigger than the car (I don't know how they let me drive off with that one). Full of furniture but it was a giant sail slowing me down.

So were you running a straight methanol injection or water/meth? What type of system did you have and was it overly expensive consumption wise? I will definite be running waste oil so some fuel costs I can live with. Gotta get my filter setup put together though. We've got plenty of oil available here. I can run 80/20 wmo/rug a lot.

Simpler=Better 11-08-2018 09:52 AM

I made my own system, I think it was 5GPH. I still have the manifold somewhere in my shed if you want it (we welded in a sprayer bung on each runner).

100psi pump is $60-$100, Iv'e gotten them for $20 used before.
Then you need an on/off valve, pressure switch, tubing, fittings, etc. (Probably another $100)

So now you've got an extra system to maintain and you're at least $200 into it...or you could save that money for a $1200 pump.

Fuel economy tanked when towing I'm sure, I didn't even check. Was a straigt pipe with the 2056v, and never went past 1150*F (It's been a while).

You can adjust or remove your alda, that sets the pump to deliver "12psi" worth of fuel. There's a document on superturbodiesel forums detailing the tweaks you can further make. use OM616 probably has a copy too.

DON'T pull the rack limiter, just adjust it as needed. That was an early mistake a lot of us made.

rwd4evr 11-08-2018 10:01 AM

So is it straight meth or washer fluid? A k-jet CIS pump pushes 85-90 psi I've got a bunch of them. What type of" sprayer" we're you using? I would be interested in the manifold possibly. K-jet injectors would be ideal for this too I think.

Simpler=Better 11-09-2018 02:03 PM

I ran 49% alcohol, 51% water using a shurflo 100psi pump. If you run anything higher than 50% alcohol you're risking pre-detonation under compression.

www.Mcmaster.com part # 32885K731 (general use spray nozzle, 1GPH @100psi x5)

If I did it all over again from scratch I'd run a single large nozzle upstream from the manifold. The 5 port monster wasn't the best design, especially since it was built into a short runner manifold.

You add a valve and pressure switch to keep it controllable.
Pump->pressure switch->valve feeding the sprayers. This way you can have your lines pressurized and then flip a switch to start dispensing. If you just have the pump plumbed directly to the nozzles air will get in the lines and they don't start as evenly.

rwd4evr 11-10-2018 06:38 AM

Ok. So it was sort of like a nitrous system, on demand only. Not a throttled ful time supplement. the CIS gas injectors would be perfect for this since they are sealed up to 55 psi or so. I'll have to flow test them at some point when I'm screwing around. I'd love to see some dyno results with a diesel meken pump and the right parts. If I can go over 200hp and 300+ lb ft I'm sold. But a bigger turbo and meth injection for the time being to achieve similar power would be great.

moon161 11-10-2018 10:23 PM

Oldsinner111 I think used propane switched in either by putting a switch at the end of accelerator travel or at a certain boost pressure.

Simpler=Better 11-12-2018 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon161 (Post 3860404)
Oldsinner111 I think used propane switched in either by putting a switch at the end of accelerator travel or at a certain boost pressure.

Propane is risky because:
-If the engine is hot enough, you can get detonation
-You can get ticketed for using non-DOT tanks on the road

rwd4evr 11-15-2018 12:10 PM

I'm not a huge fan of the "power added" idea like nitrous or propane or meth for that matter but I guess it's only used for acceleration or on a steep grade? Not pumping extra fuel cost while cruising right?

I finnlly finished moving all my stuff from my old shop to the new one( big thanks to Fonzi )not gonna say my move is finished cause there's lots of setup and trashing of some stuff. i just looked at the ax15 next to a Mercedes manual and it's way bigger. I think some serious tunnel rearranging wil be done.

rwd4evr 03-06-2019 03:22 PM

So continuation of this thread, the w126 sedan has been saved from chopping block. I just bought a rust free w123 wagon (shocking!) It's got plenty of other issues but rust was one I didn't want to deal with, minor crash damage in the rad support and pass fender mount. . So all of my planned mods for the w126 will end up in the wagon where I wanted them in the first place. Super excited about that, I can make it look good now too. At least from a little distance. I'm not going to go crazy on perfect paint and body. I don't want to be so concerned about parking it and beating it. First will be manual Swap, with 3.23 LSD rear. Gen 2 w126 front brakes. Then start looking at more power.

moon161 03-14-2019 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better (Post 3860870)
Propane is risky because:
-If the engine is hot enough, you can get detonation
-You can get ticketed for using non-DOT tanks on the road


Prohibited in the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, as well.

moon161 03-14-2019 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr (Post 3897170)
So continuation of this thread, the w126 sedan has been saved from chopping block. I just bought a rust free w123 wagon (shocking!) It's got plenty of other issues but rust was one I didn't want to deal with, minor crash damage in the rad support and pass fender mount. . So all of my planned mods for the w126 will end up in the wagon where I wanted them in the first place. Super excited about that, I can make it look good now too. At least from a little distance. I'm not going to go crazy on perfect paint and body. I don't want to be so concerned about parking it and beating it. First will be manual Swap, with 3.23 LSD rear. Gen 2 w126 front brakes. Then start looking at more power.


I'm curious about the LSD in a W123 (finding one for it, suitability, installlation, etc.) Please keep us up to date about that.

rwd4evr 06-20-2019 03:10 PM

All diagonal swingaxle cars(w114,115,116,123,126,r107,c107) diffs will Interchange with the exception of 86 and up "gen 2" r107 and w126. The input flex disc must be the correct size. R/c107 is the most likely source for a LSD but any car could have one as an option. They are fairly rare though. Unfortunately the most common is a 2.47 in a 560slthat is a gen 2 diff. I got my 3.23 LSD in a euro 380slc. You also have to be aware of the 188mm and 210 mm difference. All v8 are 210 and I can't say for sure off the top of my head but it's very possible a v8 diff will require a shorter driveshaft. Axles go with the diff. All the same except w116 and w126 which are longer. Maybe only one side but I forget at the moment.

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rwd4evr 07-09-2019 02:05 AM

Got the 300sd tagged and I'm daily driving it. Some what reconsidering making it an El Camino now. It drives well and everything(including ac) works so swapping to the rust free ****box wagon I bought will be a big deal. Maybe later. For now I want to get this car to my liking. I cut a coil in front(could use a touch more but the obnoxious nose up is better) . It needs shocks bad Need to build a real hitch and get some more power. So I have done some more reading and I'm kinda sold on the water meth injection. The higher the pressure the better from what I see. I've found some 150psi pumps for under 100$. I'm thinking 2 nozzles right after the turbo, so more flow from both if it can handle it with the stock turbo(for now). Can anyone recommend a good read on an om617 turbo similar to this setup? Also what is the opinion on a China hx30w compared to stock vs an hx35? I've read the stock turbo is limited by fuel not it's size, so is a meth setup going to be enough fuel to run out of (stock)turbo?

rwd4evr 07-10-2019 01:58 AM

Maybe I like reinventing the wheel a little and I can do it cheap I think. What do you think about compressed air powered water meth injection? Small onboard compressor and tank which is good to have for air shocks and towing junk in general. Pressurized water meth tank when engaged only. The rest really wouldn't be any different than running an electric pump.

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rwd4evr 02-12-2020 08:29 PM

I've been driving this car for a while now and I just need more power. I've bought a om 603 car and a 6 speed c230 kompressor trans is on its way. Not certain what it will end up in, but a 400hp diesel pump UK pump will be destined to be part of it. For the time being I have more power on the way, let's say at the push of a button. After some quick dirty and probably not very safe tests the equipment to do it right will be here soon. Any guesses? [emoji2]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...37f8f50d66.jpg

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rwd4evr 02-18-2020 02:04 AM

Propane injection! I'll do a little list of stuff I used when it's done. It's actually two systems in one. First stop is a Hobbs switch that actvates the power relay at 3 psi boost(adjustable if I need to) to avoid any accidental triggering under any circumstances. Then an arming switch for each of the two solenoids that control the two systems.
1. a simple BBQ grill regulator into a solenoid then plumbed up to just in front of the turbo, this is a low flow" fumigation" system that will automatically start at 3 psi anytime it's armed. This gives a bit of power, increased mileage and less smoke.
2. An adjustable turkey fryer type regulator set up on a full throttle or maybe a manual button for a power adder. This one you need to be cautious with. Too much and you can get detonation. Both will run in the same line from the trunk.

Wiyh a simple camping stove tank and valve I gave it a few shots and it really wakes the 617 up. I'd guess at least 25-35 hp. At highway speed in top gear it actually accelerates pretty briskly when you open it and full throttle. I'm waiting on my pyrometer to install it all, setting up the system and checking for leaks in the fittings. Need to make a wireing harness and switch panel to replace the ashtray.

I also found a home for this engine or possibly the one in my 300TDt. 1975 240d 4 speed w115 chassis. Perfect choice for the elcamino conversion I want to do with no fuel tank behind the seat. A little smaller and sportier, all my 450slc drift car suspension mods can be used to make this a fun capable daily I can throw **** in the back of. I did a little photo shop and proportions look good. I wouldn't go this low at all but I didn't want to do it on a stock nose up car. Staggered 16" rial n weaves will probably be the wheels. My car is a nice charcoal grey. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fa0c9b7c03.jpg

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t walgamuth 02-18-2020 08:54 AM

To the OP. I have done a lot of towing things.

IMHO if you put in a good five speed od tranny you can tow whatever the car will feel safe with weight wise with the stock rear end.

If you feel it has to be changed you change the diff. later with minimal lost effort.

rwd4evr 02-18-2020 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 4010291)
To the OP. I have done a lot of towing things.

IMHO if you put in a good five speed od tranny you can tow whatever the car will feel safe with weight wise with the stock rear end.

If you feel it has to be changed you change the diff. later with minimal lost effort.

Well I'm kinda at a weird place with that 5 speed right now. I want to put a turbo 5cyl in this 240d 4 speed to be my local daily. With propane it makes enough power for me to have some fun but I don't think it's really up to towing a 3200lbs car on a dolly with tools and spares. I have my bus for that and I have a om603 and 6 speed combo that will be another drivetrain for my wagon or fintail. The Jeep 5 speed lm not sure on at the moment. I'd like to just get the 4 speed car put together and not worry about od right now. I need a three pedal daily asap. My diesel is basically free so..... I've got so many dxmn cars it's hard to decide. But I think this 240d is the right choice for now. It should bolt together with the correct 5 cyl mount arms. I've got motors. I've got all the suspension and subframes I can build separately with r107 brakes and cut springs, poly bushings, and have ready for a two day thrash to put it all in the car. Throttle and shutoff are the only question mark. But the 5 speed is tempting. I'll probably wait till I have the car with no motor in it to see about tunnel issues.

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tbomachines 02-18-2020 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr (Post 4010250)
Propane injection! I'll do a little list of stuff I used when it's done. It's actually two systems in one. First stop is a Hobbs switch that actvates the power relay at 3 psi boost(adjustable if I need to) to avoid any accidental triggering under any circumstances. Then an arming switch for each of the two solenoids that control the two systems.
1. a simple BBQ grill regulator into a solenoid then plumbed up to just in front of the turbo, this is a low flow" fumigation" system that will automatically start at 3 psi anytime it's armed. This gives a bit of power, increased mileage and less smoke.
2. An adjustable turkey fryer type regulator set up on a full throttle or maybe a manual button for a power adder. This one you need to be cautious with. Too much and you can get detonation. Both will run in the same line from the trunk.

Wiyh a simple camping stove tank and valve I gave it a few shots and it really wakes the 617 up. I'd guess at least 25-35 hp. At highway speed in top gear it actually accelerates pretty briskly when you open it and full throttle. I'm waiting on my pyrometer to install it all, setting up the system and checking for leaks in the fittings. Need to make a wireing harness and switch panel to replace the ashtray.

I also found a home for this engine or possibly the one in my 300TDt. 1975 240d 4 speed w115 chassis. Perfect choice for the elcamino conversion I want to do with no fuel tank behind the seat. A little smaller and sportier, all my 450slc drift car suspension mods can be used to make this a fun capable daily I can throw **** in the back of. I did a little photo shop and proportions look good. I wouldn't go this low at all but I didn't want to do it on a stock nose up car. Staggered 16" rial n weaves will probably be the wheels. My car is a nice charcoal grey. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fa0c9b7c03.jpg

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This is awesome!!

rwd4evr 02-19-2020 02:09 AM

Which part?[emoji16] I'm getting excited. My one issue the whole time with doing the truck conversion on the w126 was the fuel system. The tank behind the back seat kinda ruins the whole truck bed. Sure I could have moved the tank but it's not the best or safest thing to do. The w114 has the tank under the floor of the trunk. Perfect. Plus I am a way bigger fan of the w114 front end. The suspension is way more tunable and it's way lighter, and all the work I've done on my drift car learning what makes it do what is transferable. My drift car is too soft still so setting this car up the same should be perfect. Not positive what gear to run in it yet. I'm going to build the front subframe from an r/c107 for it then a rear from a c107 with polyurethane bushings and maybe antisquat control arms. I found engine mounts on eBay but they want a bit much. I'm hoping they accept my offer.

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t walgamuth 02-19-2020 10:56 AM

The five cylinder into a 240 is well documented here. I have done it twice, and have converted several cars from auto to stick so when you narrow your focus down a bit we can give a list of things needed.

rwd4evr 02-19-2020 03:26 PM

In a w115 240 or w123? I'm putting this one together. It's a1975 240d w115. As of now I have found the 300dw115 motor mounts on eBay, but I've gotta talk him down off 38 and 55 for them I hope. So plan is thr stock 4 speed in it on the (edit 1984 wagon)300tdt om617. I can't recall what year it is this second. Not sure if the 300sd 84 85 exhaust he was talking about that would clear the framerail is the same in a 300tdt. So here's what I gather could be issues but don't know 100%.
1. Is the 617.952 300sd the same oil pan in my w123 wagon? Will I have clearance issues on the subframe with factory 5 cyl w115 mounts?

2. How much do the driveshaft and shift rods have to be shortened?

3. Is the stock rad and smaller oil cooler up to the job?

4. Will the AC compressor fit low driver side like it is stock on the 617.952? And will it jive with the older system ok?


5. Will my current 4 cyl pull knob GP power supply be sufficient for the 5cyl?

I figure I can rig a manual vaccum valve or a solenoid to kill it.

All I can think of at the moment.

Oh, so you reccomended having the torque converter and flexplate checked on the donor engine and have the 240d flywheel balanced the same? So mark them both at tdc to reinstall? Was the crank really balanced with the torque converter by Mercedes? That sounds crazy.



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rwd4evr 02-21-2020 03:40 AM

Oh yeah! Need to build a plate and support arm to strap to the tank when it's in the trunk but the system works. I found this acetalyne regulator that is really high quality and easy to adjust a tiny bit at a time. I went for a quick ride and slowly crept up to like 5 psi static plus whatever the BBQ is putting in, I think 2 psi. The BBQ reg is set on the hobbs switch to come on at 3psi boost and I have a bump button hooked up for the big reg. It's adding significant power and I heard no unhappy noise or anything. I don't want to go any further until it's all mounted properly. I need a couple 90 fittings too. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b16c3cbde5.jpg

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rwd4evr 02-22-2020 03:54 PM

I can't wait to get this turbo om617 in a lighter car with a manual trans. It's gonna be great with the propane. I think I'm going to upgrade the turbo while I'm at it. Now that it's got the extra fuel I'm nervous about running it with uncontrolled boost spinning the crap out of the turbo over 17psi. I'm putting a simple valve boost adjuster in today for the time being. The propane really seems to clean up the smoke under acceleration. I'm just judging by cars headlights behind me but it's much less. The acceleration is night and day with the second system engaged and still very obvious with just the low pressure. I could probably put a kit together if anyone is interested.

On the swap side of it I have the 5cyl w114 mount arms on the way. I'm going to be stripping a 280slc to ship the drivetrain to a customer so I'll be building the subframes for the w114. I'm hoping to gey to the swap in a couple weeks. I can't bring myself to tearing apart my 300sd daily so the semi question able 617 from my wagon will probably be the engine that goes in it. It's just dumb to take apart the most reliable Mercedes I have. The wagon motor runs ok but has a little bobble at idle. It could be injectors or even just bad fuel. It's only run for like 10 minutes when I got it. Not vacuum system, charging system is dead thermostat is stuck. Plus the HVAC is tottaly hacked. So it's gonna need a bunch of work even if it stayed in the car. Being a rust free wagon it's a great project and may be home to the om603 and 6 speed eventually. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a96bf6f883.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...58ebb22ae8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...99240a8428.jpg

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rwd4evr 02-24-2020 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 4010621)
The five cylinder into a 240 is well documented here. I have done it twice, and have converted several cars from auto to stick so when you narrow your focus down a bit we can give a list of things needed.

What drive shaft did you use putting a 5 cyl and 4 speed in the w114? I've found a part number(yellow circle,240d 3.0 4 speed) that crosses to a couple of other cars, but it doesn't say if they are also manual or auto. I. Actually have the correct part in my 450slc with the 4 speed conversion so at least I know the length I need. I'd love to just find a correct front half and not have to cut and weld then rebalance. I'm guessing there is no way to put the 617.910 filter housing easily on the 617.952? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7b7e1e4ce2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a076b42777.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8b72c82336.jpg

rwd4evr 02-24-2020 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 4010621)
The five cylinder into a 240 is well documented here. I have done it twice, and have converted several cars from auto to stick so when you narrow your focus down a bit we can give a list of things needed.

I've done enough epc cross referencing to make your head spin. It looks like I can use my 240d rear DS half and a front half of a w114 4 speed car, or a whole 114 4 speed DS possibly. The benzcat.com epc version is pretty close to the real thing. I had to get fonzi to look on real epc to determine if some of the w114 cars listed that cross were actually 4 speed or auto. t walgamuth, can you throw me a bone like you said you would? Or even a link to the thread you said the swap was well documented? I can't find it.

Here is my plan so we're not confused.

Om617 from an 84 300TDt(617.952).

The 4 speed and flywheel that is currently in the 240d w114.117 (716.002/716.003).

I guess I'll be sticking with the 3.69 that's in it at least for now.
Things I know.
Need to shorten shift linkages.

Need a different front half or full driveshaft

Need to address oil filter housing.

Things to consider.

Concerns on rad being up to it.

Ac compressor clearance with new style driver bottom mount may be tight. Will the old style fit on the .952?

Was the converter really balanced with the flexplate on the .952 crank.

(Just now remember this:( crap)
Is the late .952 crank really not machined properly for a pilot bearing? I remember coming across this 8 years ago when I was planning the 4 speed into my first 300td.





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rwd4evr 02-29-2020 04:34 AM

I have a na 617 in a car I believe is a w115 engine possibly, I have to double-check. If it is a w115 original engine will the oil pan fit my 617.952 and then clear the crossmember without any issues.? T walgamuth says I the w115 chassis the rear engine face and trans stay in the same place so I won't need to shorten shifters and drive shaft. Is this correct? That will be a big help if so. Has anyone actually done this (617.952 in a w115 240d w/4 speed) with stock parts?

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rwd4evr 03-12-2020 07:46 PM

T walgamuth, you said the 4/5/6 cyl had the rear of the engine in the same place. Therefore the driveshaft would be the same with the same trans. Not the case. One
Is a 220d and one is a 280c. Damn. I didn't think it was possible but I was hoping. Granted I don't have a 5 cyl 300d to look at but the 5 cyl diesel and 6 cyl gas are almost the same size. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...900d20b9aa.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...67f8260018.jpg

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t walgamuth 03-13-2020 07:48 AM

Look at it from the bottom. Also the gas engine is different from the diesel. I never said the gas engine has the same driveshaft, (though I suspect it is).

rwd4evr 03-16-2020 11:15 AM

None of the 5 cyl diesel or 6 cyl share a driveshaft with a 240d. I find it very hard to believe that there would be this much space behind a 5 cyl engine as well. Looking at the subframe there is plenty of room for it to be shifted forward just like it would be in a w123 300d. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6580792dda.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d48fc427e7.jpg

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t walgamuth 03-17-2020 10:46 AM

I'd measure the driveshaft carefully. lt is possible that even though there is a different part number they will interchange. Did your parts source show the 300 driveshaft?

rwd4evr 03-18-2020 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 4020839)
I'd measure the driveshaft carefully. lt is possible that even though there is a different part number they will interchange. Did your parts source show the 300 driveshaft?

Well I don't have one to measure. I'd I had a 5 cyl diesel w115 here i wouldn't have any of the questions I have. I did just go through and found that the 230,250,280c and
240d 3.0/300d use the same driveshaft. Then I found a 220d listed with the same. The problem. Is that the benzcat. Com site is not giving me a manual or auto choice so that is confusing things. I'm guessing an auto 220d with longer auto trans and a 300d/280c with a shorter manual and the rear of the engine further back use the same shaft.

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t walgamuth 03-18-2020 09:16 AM

If all else fails getting a ds made a different link is a pretty routine matter. Last one I had to do cost less than 200 but that was some years back. Once you get the engine and transmission in and can make a measurement on the length it is quite possible someone here has what you need. I have several ds lying about which I will let go very cheaply.

rwd4evr 05-26-2020 10:37 PM

Well not surprising at all but this idea is morphing again in the hopes of a fast(enough) manual trans diesel vehicle i can pile **** into and tow a reasonable amount with. I'm over the om617 plan. Just too weak and the 4 speed is an issue gearing wise. I picked up a 6 speed 716.668 from a c230 kompressor with the m111 supercharged engine. It bolts up to the om603 in my 300sdl directly. Now looking the floor of the w126 above the trans in it I can see why I can't find anyone who has done this swap. This 6 speed trans has a pretty high rear section including the shifter and I think it's going to I need some surgery to fit in the tunnel. This w126 is just terrible enough to mercilessly hack up to make it work so I can do a much better and cleaner job on the next one.

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rwd4evr 06-11-2020 03:28 AM

So I'm a step closer to fully using the 300sdl for my daily/tow vehicle. I built and installed a serious trailer hitch plenty beefy to tow my drift car on the dolly which is probably 4000 pounds or so. It really came out good with a bunch of stuff I had laying around. It would be pretty easy to replicate-ish with a universal 2" receiver hitch an some heavy wall 2x4 steel or angle maybe, if you can weld. I did use the monster Miller 250 at work and not the Lincoln 110 at my shop, I probably could have if it was all gouged out and prepped proper for multiple passes wiyh the little guy but why chance it. As solid as it turned out I still put a couple pairs of saftey bolts in strategic places so there is no way any failed weld will let the thing come off. I used flex disc hardware throughout and that stuff is top quality. There is thick wall tubing welded into holes going through the framework where the saftey bolts are so it can't crush. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9dc335e22e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ecc9126d11.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e37363ce75.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4764321d44.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5eea2cd3e1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1dbe1733a4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f720039a0b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...13382b64cb.jpg

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