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#1
03-06-2007, 01:26 AM
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w201 performance wish list...
so i am planning on modding out my 87 190e 2.3 8v and i want to know what i should buy to economically (that means i'm cheap
 ) boost horsepower?bought: black chrome euros kyb shock/strut assembly ordering: intrax lowering springs stage 1a intake custom exhaust (from headers to high flow cat straight to muffler) brembo cross-drilled rotors jet ecu calibration nology ignition system (wires, plugs, distributer, etc...) so what else should i throw on my wish list to "create the ultimate rice eater out of a kraut can?" 
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#2
03-06-2007, 02:10 AM
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you should come over to 190revolution.net and post this question. I will tell you right off the bat that the Jet chip is a waste of money. We have electromechanical fuel injection and an equally old school coil pack ignition system. There is not anything that you can do to the CIS-E module to pull more power from the engine. You COULD tweat the fuel metering system, but that would be pretty useless IMHO and would likely cause more problems than it is worth in the long run. Piggyback ECU chips work on newer generations of cars with fully electronic engine controls, but you will be out of luck in any w201.
Headers are worth it, especially on the 2.3 8v motors. The exhuast will likely end up being more of an aesthetic improvement (sound, appearance) rather than a performance gain. To be honest there aren't too many things that you can do to these engines on a "budget". You could definitely get results w/ 5-10k USD in engine building work, but there are no "bolt-ons" per se that will yield anything. An m104 24v I6 swap is probably your best bet at this point if you have 5k bones to spend. It has been done by a good number of folks over on the 190 site, and there are at least a couple that did enough of it themselves that they could probably help you. One was a m104 from a C36 AMG which would probably be just about the ultimate 190e, even in 268 HP (MY 1995) form. Nothing comes cheaply here sadly
__________________
1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock 1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car
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#3
03-06-2007, 12:53 PM
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Well from what i've seen (approx. hp gains) the chip would give you more or less 10-15 hp. I understand what it does is recalibrates the computer system to it's exact factory settings (you know how stuff gets a little off within 20 years!) The highflow cat that i purchased says it will give a 15-20 hp gain, not to mention the exhaust pipe itself (i got a guy who's amazing with exhaust work) and the highflow muffler, i'm hoping a total of atleast 30 hp. I'm not quite sure how much horses my intake should give but i had to run it without the big round filter across town one day and the difference was at the least noticable. I believe with bigger fuel injectors and a hotter spark, and also the headers (by the way where can i find those!), my car SHOULD be close to the 250 range. With more or less a grand i can get all these mods, that leaves me 4 grand to play with and i'm already at 250 horses. How much hp does the m104 have? With all the cost of an engine and tranny swap would it really be worth it? Also, what if i just frankensteined a turbo or supercharger for the 2.3, i heard the vw golf turbo fits! Wouldn't that be a lot cheaper?
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#4
03-06-2007, 02:38 PM
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I don't want to throw a wrench in your gears, but I wouldn't count on those numbers, at all. With all that, more realistically, up from 136, about 150. Turbo's the better route, but you need at least 10 PSI to get ~100 HP out of it, with a proper turbo. The k03 perhaps, but the K04 is a better bet. You could probably get the manifold made pretty cheap, or it seems like Bekkers.com has one for that engine? Not sure on that.
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#5
03-07-2007, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Again, the chip WILL NOT WORK on our cars, no matter what Jet, or Powerchip, or whatever other universal aftermarket ECU chip manufacturer claims. For $600-900 this is a huge waste of money. Intake could free up a few ponies, again if it is installed/designed properly. Another thing to think about is that all of these mods don't just add up....just because you legitimately make 10 HP from a full exhaust does not mean that an intake will add to that. In fact, it could damage the flow properties that your engine has with the exhaust. If you want to re-calibrate your computer, just buy a new ECU. There honestly is not much to "recalibrate" though....you need to get yourself a shop manual for the w201 and do some homework on CIS-E fuel injection and engine control systems. You will then realize how ridiculous some of these manufacturer's claims are. Come over to 190revolution. There are a lot of far more experienced guys over there who have helped me a ton, and I'm sure can help you too. Best of luck too! Oh yeah, the m104 has anywhere from 217 HP to 276 HP depending on which one you get. (3.2L or 3.6L)
__________________
1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock 1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car
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#6
03-07-2007, 03:15 AM
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It hasn't been mentioned yet, so . . . if that "stage 1A" intake is a tube/cone filter rig placed behind the headlight assembly under the hood . . . then you'll be going into "negative HP" territory since it's long been shown that those "cold air intakes" suck in a lot of warm/hot air.
The OEM setup is a true cold air intake already. If you want to improve on that, then graft on the scoop and hose from the 260E air cleaner, not attaching a shiny pipe and filter that looks like it came from a teenager's Civic. Just to be clear, ask the seller of the intake for dyno runs before and after the installation of the intake that's been sold to other customers. If they say they don't have any dyno runs . . . could it be because they don't want to know, or could it be that they have done the dyno runs and don't want customers to know?  BTW, I agree with the other opinions that the HP figures you're citing are based more on hopes and dreams than experience with these engines.
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#7
03-07-2007, 05:01 AM
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well with all that said, looks like we won't be ordering the parts after all... good suggestion about the 260 E piping is it bigger? cuz i could just throw in a round K&N... but with everything aside, would it be more economical to super charge the 2.3 and build on it... or swap in the m104?
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#8
03-07-2007, 01:05 PM
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For those on a budget, it would be "cheaper" to go out and buy a used 1987 V-8 Camaro for when you "feel the need for speed" than doing a transplant or boosting the 2.3L. That's the simple economics of it all.
If you're willing to lay down some bucks, then consider that to squeeze in the M104 into the M102 engine space, you'll need to refit not only the engine, all of the car's substructure infront of the engine (radiator, supports, etc) to accomodate the six cylinder. The 2.6L version of the 190E is already modified to fit the six. Wiring up all the engine management will also be required. Super/Turbo-charging will likely require swapping out the Bosch CIS fuel management for EFI. As said before, there's not much "bolt on" performance products for this chassis, making HP gains the result of owner ingenuity . . . which can be rewarding in itself.
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