Check Engine Light: P0156

[Ron in SC]

Vehicle is 1999 ML 320 with 107,900 miles on it.

Vehicle runs and idles fine no different than before check engine light came on.

Code reader shows P0156 which is Bank 2 Sensor 2 malfunction. I believe that refers to the driver's side O2 sensor after the CAT.

Questions
Should I replace that O2 sensor? And if so why when the vehicle is running fine. Will any harm be done to the vehicle to run it with this fault?

Edited:

I don't want to replace an O2 sensor just because a computer told the check engine light to come on unless it's necessary. For all I know the O2 sensor may be barely out of the designated parameters but still work just fine.

[Gilly]

Questions
Should I replace that O2 sensor? YESAnd if so why when the vehicle is running fineBecause it's defective.. Will any harm be done to the vehicle to run it with this faultProbably not, no promises.?

Gillyyyy

[Ron in SC]

Gilly,


Well I disconnected my battery to reset the check engine light. I started my vehicle up and the check engine light is now not illuminated when I’m driving.

I did a little reading and it seems that the parameters the computer requires for the check engine light to stay off for a P0156 fault code are very narrow. So it may come on again soon; I really don’t know.

According to the code the O2 sensor on the drives side of the vehicle behind the CAT is the one that supposedly is malfunctioning. If I’m not mistaken it measures the exhaust emissions after they go thru the CAT. So one of two things is happening. Either the O2 sensor that threw the code is not capable of reading the emissions that are passing thru it as being within the parameters, or theO2 sensor in front of the CAT is not working properly either and therefore the computer is allowing an improper mixture which causes the O2 sensor behind the CAT to detect that the emissions are not within spec.

Since the vehicle is running identical to the way it was running before the check engine light went on it would seem logical that the O2 sensor behind the CAT is having trouble measuring the gases to tell the computer that everything is as it should be. To conclude otherwise one would have to assume that the O2 sensor in front of the CAT is malfunctioning, but the computer is not reading the fault from the O2 sensor before the CAT, which is unlikely.

I don't think the O2 sensor malfunction of the sensor behind the CAT can affect the way a vehicle runs unless the O2 sensor before the CAT is malfunctioning too.

Bottom line: There seems to be there is nothing wrong with the way my vehicle is running.

I am correct or mistaken in my analysis.

[Gilly]

Yes the engine control module will be pretty fast to throw a code on any of the sensors, and yes I think you are on the correct sensor. I'd slow down a little to fault the front sensor, more than likely it's the sensor itself, I would tend to think along the lines of a bad cat (not operating efficiently) before I'd fault the front sensor. If the front sensor is junk you'll get a code for it, don't worry about that! I'd plan on the rear sensor sometime. Problem with disconnecting the battery is now you've lost misfire recognition, need to relearn the crank angle sensor adaptaion, don't know if I have the instructions around here for that or not, you can adapt it yourself but won't be able to prove it's adapted properly without an SDS computer or the like.
Gilly

[Ron in SC]

I would tend to think along the lines of a bad cat

Now that is a possibility since that is the CAT that had a hairline fracture around it last August. The CAT perimeter was TIG welded and so far has held. The CAT never came apart nor rattled, but maybe it was compromised.

now you've lost misfire recognition, need to relearn the crank angle sensor adaptaion

I don't understand what the above quote means, would it be possible to put it in simple terms for me.

[Gilly]

would it be possible to put it in simple terms for me.

Yeah, stop disconnecting your battery to clear check engine lights. The control module gets pissed. Your control module does not presently have a clue if your engine starts misfiring. If the engine starts misfiring and the control module doesn't take appropriate steps, a rear O2 sensor is gonna look like a bargain.

Gilly

[Ron in SC]

If the engine starts misfiring and the control module doesn't take appropriate steps

So does that mean I should take it to the dealer to get the control module checked, reset or whatever it's called so if the engine starts misfiring the control module will know what to do?

Edited:

I certainly don't want to be driving my ML with my control module pissed of at me.

[Gilly]

It's not hard to do, just a matter of finding out the gear and rpm range/speed which the module looks at. Kind of hard to explain and kind of short on time. Hold on, I can find out for you, but that's really all it involves is a certain rpm and gear (something close to 3rd gear @ 40 mph for 1 minute). It learns a certain rpm and load range, once this certain one is learned, the rest can be learned automatically more or less at the control modules "leisure". Only problem is you won't be able to check to make sure it's learned, never had much of a problem doing it though.

Gilly

[DUTCH]

Originally Posted by Gilly

It's not hard to do, just a matter of finding out the gear and rpm range/speed which the module looks at. Kind of hard to explain and kind of short on time. Hold on, I can find out for you, but that's really all it involves is a certain rpm and gear (something close to 3rd gear @ 40 mph for 1 minute). It learns a certain rpm and load range, once this certain one is learned, the rest can be learned automatically more or less at the control modules "leisure". Only problem is you won't be able to check to make sure it's learned, never had much of a problem doing it though.

Gilly

Is this only true for the M112 in the ML Series? I routinely disconnect the battery - to charge it (Optima's require a higher than normal charging voltage for maximum charge.) - on my G500 (M113) with no indications of problems afterwards.

[Ron in SC]

GIlly,

Interestingly, when I started the vehicle this morning the check engine light came on; this is after I cleared it by disconnecting the battery yesterday. Then while driving but before I got over to my buddy's shop the check engine light when out.


I had a buddy hook my vehicle to an Ottoscan OBD2 reader. The Ottoscan shows live data. He compared the graphs for each bank. While I did not understand all the numbers and graphs he said the problem was the sensor, i.e., the one behind the CAT on the drivers side, I think he said it's about worn out and that the voltage variation between the O2 sensor before the CAT and the sensor after the CAT did not vary to such a degree as to indicate that the CAT is failing

He said the problem is not with the CAT, but with the sensor after the CAT as indicated by P0156 code.

He said as other have too, that the sensor behind the CAT only measures emissions and does not affect performance. Since my CAT is functioning fine there is no reason to replace the sensor other than the light going on.

At the present time vehicles do not have telemetric links to big brother telling him or her as the case may be that my vehicle may be emitting exhaust gases not in compliance with whatever the current law mandates. So with that in mind I guess, at least for now I'm safe.

Dutch,

I don't know which Optima you are using but I've found them to be poor performer for cars that are not driven very often. I had so much trouble with mine not staying charged that the company sent me a brand new one. I've not used it though since I've found that the Odyssey batteries are better. While they both use the same technology, I've found the Odyssey will charge to a higher voltage and hold it longer.

I used brand new batteries of each brand. I charged them for 5 hours with a Guest 3 stage charger. I measured the voltage 1 hour later, Optima 13.07 volts and Odyssey 13.18 volts. Neither battery has ever been connected to a load.

Results
7 days later: Odyssey--12.92 Optima--12.69

14 days later: Odyssey--12.81 Optima--12.67

50 days later: Odyssey--12.81 Optima--12.63


This difference may not seem significant but the state charge of a battery that is 12.8 volts is 100% and the state of charge of a battery with about 12.60 volts is only 80%.

[Gilly]

Is this only true for the M112 in the ML Series?

No I believe it's true for any OBD2 engine, misfire recognition I believe is an OBD2 requirement. Don't sweat it too much, in practical use I guess it doesn't really become much of a factor, but it's good to be aware of it.
Gilly

[360glass]

So....How does one really perform the adaptation after the battery has been disconnected for 3/4 Hrs while changing the fuel pump and fuel filter?