Looking to replace my E320 with an ML320
 

I had a 1997 E320 that recently was assassinated by a hiuge pine tree (see picture here: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=241064&highlight=1997+e320).....

As I am looking to replace my vehicle, I was considering purchasing a 2001 ML320 with 103,000 miles on it.....The asking price is $8,000.00 but the seller is willing to negotiate.....At first glance it looks really well taken care of and the seller has all service records!

That said, I decided to do a web search of consumer reviews about this vehicle. After reading Edmunds reviews I'm almost terrified to purchase this vehicle.

As you guys appear to be the EXPERTS, I am asking for owners of this vehicle to chime in with their opinions and advice......I know a lot about Mercedes and often repair the 4 that we have but know NOTHING about the ML class......Please help!

Thanks in advance

Wow!!!......... Just saw this!!!!! I'd have to be INSANE to purchase an ML320!

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w163/88443-list-stuff-watch-out-163-a.html

Right now seems to be a real good time to buy one of these upscale SUV's, the repo lots around here are full of them! I just bought a 2001 ML320 yesterday, the interior looks like new, the exterior also except for a very small chip in the paint above the gas filler lid. New tires, 92K miles, listed at 7995, they took my 6950 offer. It had belonged to an older realty agent who lost his shirt when the market tanked, had personalized plates, was taken care of very well. The only thing I can find that it will need is a new fuel filter, the fuel pressure goes away too soon, and then it cranks for too long when starting. I would take all the criticism of these rigs with a grain of salt, considering that many of the problems would be eliminated by the time you buy a used vehicle. Good check list to run through, though! My brother has a 2000 ML430, he's had it for 5 or 6 years, no problems with it at all.

Most problems occur once early in the vehicle's life and then never occur again. The ongoing issues (brake switch, MAF sensor, EGR tube, etc.) are simple and cheap fixes and don't occur that often.

At 100k miles you are looking at all of the items that go wrong with _ALL_ vehicles with this age and use. Budget $4k for front end work, anything that has rubber in it and accessories and you'll be set for another 100k miles.

They are actually quite dependable vehicles as long as the owner kept up with the regular repairs. Most of the issues you read about had very simple and quick fixes then never occured again as I mentioned above. The bad reputation came from the dealers through either incompetance or greed using a minor repair issue (such as the $25 brake switch) as an excuse to replace $2k worth of electronics. Then the owners stopped doing the required maintenance and the vehicles started deteriorating. If maintained correctly there have been no reports I have read of major problems other than rebuilding a transmission in the 170k - 200k mile range. Something which is fairly normal for most vehicles, though it should be noted that not changing the fluid can substantially shorten the lifespan of the transmission. The vehicles were advertised as the transmission being "sealed for life", with the issue of "life" being just slightly longer than the warranty period. MB Germany has now reversed itself on this position as has many of the US dealers if you ask them quietly. But apparently MBUSA is scared of another class action lawsuit and the official response is that they are "sealed for life" and the fluid should not be changed. If they were now to admit that this advice was wrong it would open them up for some expensive claims.

As long as you have a complete maintenance history, get the vehicle checked out, and have money set aside for the normal repairs you should be fine purchasing this vehicle.

Agreed, they have a few issues but they're great cars, built like tanks. Having said that, it's a truck, so it won't ride or handle like an E-class. But it can tow and haul more stuff. Superb snow vehicle, but what do you care you're in Atlanta!

Well THAT makes me feel good; I'm at 185K. No way is the fluid good for a "lifetime". Mine started shifting poorly at ~114K IIRC; a flush took care of the problem and another is planned for 200K.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot for the replies, it appears as though the ML class may not be as bad as most consumer reviews rate them.....What type of fuel consumption is associated with an ML320???....I've read the various "mpg ratings" on the web but I'm thinking that you guys would have more realistic numbers....

Also, how can I tell that the "Harmonic Balancer" has been replaced?????

I also ran across a thread about an "electronic box" that cost a whopping $5,000.00 to replace (dealer item only).......Honestly, in these economic times, I do not want to bring a "money pit" into my life.....

Though my 1997 E320 is gone, we still have my wife's 1995 E320 wagon and my "back up vehicle" a 1983 300SD.....All 3 of them have not gone to the dealer or a repair shop, I personally have made all repairs (I was an ASE Certified mechanic for a little more than a decade from 1987-1999, though never a Benz tech) so I'm wondering if my skills would save me any huge repair costs on an ML class, but a $5,000 part would be the kiss of death for me!

Thanks for the replies guys!

We get about 17-20 mpg typically.

A Tank
 

TurboDiesel Glendewagon

Look for a nicely maintained '80s Glendewagon
(with the 617.XXX series TurboDiesel engine)
There are more than a few in the Metropolitan Atlanta Area.

Mercedes never opened a Secondary Assembly location,Overseas, to
compensate for any Glendewagon Q.C. Issues (There weren't any)

You will not have to think about all the QC issues of the M,Ml,Gl,Etc.,Etc.
You will not mistake it for an Automobile.

Sounds a tad overpriced, but go for it! Too bad MB didn't put turbodiesels in them that far back. That'd be the only way I'd own one, if it's diesel. But at the kinds of prices being quoted on this thread for nice used MLs, I would strongly consider one, were I wanting an ML on the cheap. Even though they're gassers.

>What type of fuel consumption is associated with an ML320???

It is heavily dependent on your driving style. I've got accurate numbers on the ML430 using US gallons:

City 16 mpg
Hwy 55mph 20 mpg
Hwy 65mph 19 mpg
Hwy 75mph 17/18 mpg

Towing I don't remember exact figures but IIRC the worse number was 12mpg towing 3 tons @ 75 mph. Towing 1-2 tons @ 65 mph was in the 14-15 mpg range.

The 320 should get anywhere from 10-15% better assuming the exact same driving style. But to give you a comparison on driving style effects my wife drives like a NY taxi and gets at best 14mpg in the city and 5-10% worse on the highway.

> Also, how can I tell that the "Harmonic Balancer" has been replaced?????

It should have been done under warranty if it occured. Get the repair history from the owner. You can go with the owner to his/her dealer and get a printout for free.

> I also ran across a thread about an "electronic box" that cost a whopping $5,000.00 to replace (dealer item only).......Honestly, in these economic times, I do not want to bring a "money pit" into my life.....

There are four electronics parts that are an issue. The first is the module security module that "approves" the key. There are a limited number of keys that can be activated in the early models (8 if I remember correctly) and once you reach that number you have to buy a new module that is only available from the dealer and can only be activated by the dealer. The electronic portion of the key fob so far lasts forever unless physically damaged. I've even left them and the pants where they got washed with no damage. As long as the current owner has only activated a few keys you should be fine. If s/he is nearing the limit I would not purchase unless you have a, well, $5k discount.

The second issue is hooking up jumper cables the wrong way (positive -> negative and vice versa). This can fry a lot of expensive parts.

The third issue is spilling a drink down into the insides of the center console. There are electronics in there that are not water tight.

The last issue is the ???? plate in the transmission. These have gone bad. But the total repair is under $1,000 and appears to be a one time item. It isn't common but does occur and should be noted if one day your transmission fails. Instead of a $2,800 repair it could be less than $1,000 at an honest shop.

The last item is really the only thing that I would consider a "gotcha" as the others are all under the control of the owner.

>(I was an ASE Certified mechanic for a little more than a decade from 1987-1999, though never a Benz tech) so I'm wondering if my skills would save me any huge repair costs on an ML class

Yes! The repairs are for the most part very simple. This is IMO the easiest vehicle in our fleet which consists of domestics and Japanese in addition to the MB.

> but a $5,000 part would be the kiss of death for me!

Other than the issues mentioned above the electronics appear to be quite robust. Other than that transmission issue I've read of darn few problems that were actual part failures and not caused by the owner. This is not to say that there haven't been a lot of parts changed out. There have. But if you read the case histories you'll find that it is the dealer either doing "guess and replace" or not taking the time to diagnose the actual cause which is often a cheap and quick solution. One problem that does occur is if the seals on the harness connections fail or water starts dripping on the part corrosion at the connection can cause an apparent failure. But the actual solution is to just clean the connection and make sure that it is water tight in the future. ABS systems and the connection to the transmission are the general culprits here.

Just purchased 1999 ML 320
 

I just purchased a 1999 ML320 with 80k on it for 8300$. It is in mint condition will replace my 1988 300E Money pit very nicely. I would say you are getting a great deal and I would jump on it if I had your opportunity.

The ML is a bigger money pit than the w124. Those cars are built very poorly

In what manner? Other than the exhaust welds name one issue that has anything to do with build quality? In fact the concensus is that they construction quality is extremely high. And shall we mention the $1,000 you need to spend on the W124 every few years to replace with wiring harness that dissolves? Or the 6 cylinder diesel engine that won't last 100k miles? Or ....

The problems except for the cat welds all fall into the bad engineering category. And most of the bad engineering was fixed early on. Once the W123 gets past the 60k mile "break in" where all of the problems occur if they were fixed correctly none of the expensive issues have a history of returning. The ongoing maintenance can be excessive but tend to be very cheap and easy fixes such as the brake light switch or the CkPS.

Now if you choose to take your vehicle to a dishonest repair shop of course you can wind up spending a lot of money in unnecessary repairs. But this is true of any vehicle.

One issue that should be stressed though is that you are looking at a completely different animal than your light sedan. This is not even the same unibody oversized cars that are called SUVs. This is a light truck designed for moderately severe off road use. Even with the 4 wheel independent suspension and no axles it is going to ride like, well, an off road truck. Handling and ride comfort is superb for a truck but still truck-like.

I'd say it's built like a brick *****house actually. Ours has not been as reliable as a Toyota (is supposed to be; I've never had one), but it's really not been a money pit either. It needs some maintenance now and then, but at 185,000 miles it still drives the same as the day we bought it. Granted we bought it two years old with 60K on it, but still.

So far I have been able to do all my own work.

$1000 that needs to be spent on a wiring harness every year? that is a bold faced lie, 6 Cylinder diesel engine that won't last 100k miles?!?!?! are you talking about the rod bender in the W126 and W140's? Get your facts straight buddy....


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...untitled-3.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...b/Rep2007A.jpg

LOL@ ML being for severe off road use....I own several ranches here in California and no one here uses the ML. You are living in a bubble

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/offroad.html

No Unibody vehicle can be called a severe offroader I have GX470 guess what it has a rigid rear axle and is body on frame.

You really made me laugh :P Thank you!!!

The early ones were pretty bad, I had a "NEW" 99 and got to meet the entire service dpartment. A year later I traded it for a 01 E wagon, they almost lost the deal over the "lo ball" and nit picking it apart.
I heard the newer ones are better!

Take a look at a W210 Wagon...
Rides great..lots of room..Some problems as with any vehicle

I Had a early 163ML..It was The WORST vehicle I have owned..and I have owned several cars/trucks..Lemon law the 163 Bought a 2000 W210 Wagon
Still have it

Since you had a W210 the wagon might work for you

OK I must have really jinxed myself making those statements, because THE VERY NEXT DAY the old Mel broke down 100 miles from home. Had to pay someone to replace the idler pulley, which split and thus shredded the serpentine belt. All told, with towing, a ride to the ski hill, and paying the mechanic to run to the dealer in Traverse City to fetch a new PLASTIC idler pulley and replace it, it cost me $375 to replace a $35 part. Anyway all's well that ends well, the job got done today and we got home with no further issues. [/rant] Still less than a car payment when you think about it.

The W163 is body on frame.

You are right the new one is unibody, but the w163, does have the multilink rear suspension and the same 4ets system used in the sedans/wagons.

So basically fellas, are the early MLs pieces of crap or what????

I found one, a 1998 ML320, with high mileage (190,000 miles) that has been dealer maintained since day one and is in MINT condition......That said, the seller has dumped over 7K in recent maintenance and repairs (New brakes - New Catalytic converter - major A/C overhaul) - Never wrecked - Garage kept......etc.

My question is:

"Should I buy one with less miles and possibly end up putting money into it that has already been spent on this one????? OR, is the high mileage something that I should completely stay away from on the ML class????"

Thanks

190k on a ML? I would stay away

> LOL@ ML being for severe off road use

Yeah, it could never win the Dakar run. Twice.

> No Unibody vehicle can be called a severe offroader

And this has what to do with the W163? You really have no idea what you are writing about, do you?

As there are darn few (if any) engines that have worn out from normal wear and tear we don't have good data on how long it will last. If it hasn't had a new transmission put on recently there is a good chance that it could go at any time. If all of the wear items have been replaced these are the only two material items that could go wrong in the next few years.

Get an oil analysis and a compression check on the engine. If it is good condition and you've got an extra US3k set aside for a transmission rebuild then you should be fine. If the engine is iffy then set aside another US$4k.

I've got accurate repair data on quite a few high mileage vehicles. These are US domestics, Japanese, and MB. For all of these once you get past the warranty period if you set aside US$2k/year on average for a vehicle that is driven 12k miles a year or less you will have enough money to make the vehicle last forever and never get your hands dirty. This includes drivetrains, paint jobs, and interior rebuilds in addition to the standard maintenance. If you baby the vehicle and do repair work yourself you can cut that number down by at least 1/3.

If you have the reserve funds mentioned above and plan on keeping the vehicle a long time/forever the data indicates that on average you will be spending the same amount of money in the long run. So if that is your goal a perfectly maintained high mileage vehicle can be a good choice.

Please look at the reliability scans attached...Thanks

The ML uses the same 4ETS system that many 4matic cars use.

Please show me where the ML won the dakar rally?

I don't see it listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakar_rally

The m class did win 2 times, 2000 and 2003, in the production class category T1. Sorry to burst your bubble.

ok. just to chime in....

problems or not...

we didn't like the way our ML320 would act from time to time...
*skyview, rear gate, low range, window switches... ect* all w/in first 80K miles
lets face it. everyone dumps money somewhere...
we get a good deal, we're ticked because we put money into it, we find a higher priced serviced car, and are ticked because we didn't jump on it...

@ some point we just pull the triger & go.

ok... now... i'm only here to gather the diesel guys back to our territory because this is like bad news bear.

lol

>>> 100K Diesels???
:: GASP :: I missed that recall notice. lol..

& in regards to the harmonic balancer, it went on our SLK320.
dealer took care of everything & i got to drive a nice C300 4MATIC Lux pkg for a week while they did so :)

PS.
this is the kinda sight you get w/ the harmonic balancer :/

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ew8908/005.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...8908/002-1.jpg

Well guys, I did it!!!!
 

Just purchased a 2000 ML320 with 97,000 miles in literally mint condition...

The guy was asking $7,800.00 and I got it for $6,900.00 cash!!

Here are pictures of it, thanks all for all of the great advice...Had you guys not told me about the 1997-1998 ML320 problems, I probably would have purchased one!!1 A MILLION THANKS, I SWEAR IT!!!! I'm VERY pleased with this purchase and for a truck it floats down the road, almost effortlessly! :-)

It did not have an owners manual and there are a few buttons that I am unsure of, anyone know if there are any online service manuals?

Man, I am just so friggin happy! :-)

Congratulations!
 

Congratulations! I know you will be happy with it, I sure like my 2001 ML320! They do ride very comfortably for a truck, both in the front and rear seats, and the "amenities" are very nice indeed. You need an owners manual, and I'll bet you can get one on Ebay if you watch for a few weeks. There are a few things that the owner's manual is needed for.
I just finished installing the phone adapter in my 2001, a bluetooth version, and I really like it, as I use the phone on the job a lot, and all you have to do is get in the ML and the bluetooth syncs right up to the phone, then you can talk normally and hear the caller on the radio speakers (the radio mutes automatically) plus you can dial the number using the radio buttons. With my PPC-6800 I cannot download the phone directory, but I can use it from the phone if needed. Next addition will be the voice control, which will allow me to dial numbers by voice, and control some radio functions by voice also. The phone was just a plug the cable in sort of addition, but I have to build the harness for the voice control unit, as it wasn't an option in 2001.

Good luck with the new purchase, let us know how it does with mileage after a few hundred miles are accrued.
:)

Ok, here we go.....

Replacing the radiatoer today, the plastic tube that the hose going to the expansion tank is cracked, apparently from over-tightening......Found a radiator locally for 200 bucks with a lifetime warranty.....I'll be changing it out this weekend.

Next, check engine light came on January 29, (97,537) miles on odometer, code P0410, cleared code.......Code resurfaces this morning, January 31, odometer reads (97,649)......Approximately, 150 miles until code resurfaced.

Secondary Air System....I did notice that during acold start, I get a vibration from the front of the engine for approxiamtely 60 seconds......From what I've read, it's quite possible that this could be coming from the air pump....

Did some research in the archives, the P0410 code can be anything from a lazy oxygen sensor, to a fuse, to carbon build-up in the system.....Found a few external links that show how to disassemble Secondary Air System components and clean.....I will systematically attempt to diagnose the source of the fault before getting to that point.......I do suspect that the previous owner may have used regular gas at some point......Initially, when I purchased this vehicle, 6 days ago, I was fully aware of the fact that upon coming to a stop, the vehicle had a rough idle......All other drive ranges, the vehicle runs silky smooth.......With 97,000 miles, I'm going to assume that the spark plugs are in need of replacement....

Despite what I'm experiencing, I still faind this M class to be a most fascinating vehicle......With 97K miles, I expected to have to do something with regards to maintanace.......I used to do all repairs on my 1997 E320, so I'm not intimidated by this car......Would like to find a repair book with schematics......

Anyways, expect lots of posts from me, I intend to become an expert DIYer on the ML320....I will also post the external limks that I have found regarding this vehicle.....My wife has also found a site that has owners manual, radio manuals, etc in pdf format, I will post the links as well....

Antbody wanna chime in on the P0410 code, please do!!!

Once again, thanx to all!

Big Dee