Will a 280E sedan auto tranmission fit a 280GE g wagon

[1982gwagon]

Are the 1982 280E and 280GE automatic transmissions the same physical size, so they are effectively interchangable, even if the gearing is different?

Last week, my 1982 280GE M110-994 engine broke a connecting rod. I found a 1982 280E (JDM EuroSpec M110-984) with 64,000 original KM on it for NZ$1000 (about US$560) and am now pulling it apart to serve as a long-block for the G wagon.

But I'm looking at that absurdly low mileage transmission sitting on the garage floor that I know mates up perfectly with the long block. I am tempted to use it provided it is a perfect mechancal fit. Yes, I know its low gear is not as low as on the G, and that the G may have beefier internals. But the G transmission probably has 400,000 miles (not KM) on it, and it does some odd things from time to time.

While the G wagon is capable of amazing feats, mine is like an old horse put out to pasture. It is driven about 600 miles a year and mostly used on the farm to run errands to the building supply shop. From time to time, I load it up, like a couple weeks ago when I filled it full of stone tiles, but it does not do silly angles, does not go in sand or water and if I need superlow gear, I just shift it into low case.

My question: Will the sedan's transmission fit perfectly in the g wagon? If not, what needs to be changed?

[Frank Reiner]

Originally Posted by 1982gwagon

Are the 1982 280E and 280GE automatic transmissions the same physical size, so they are effectively interchangable, even if the gearing is different?

My question: Will the sedan's transmission fit perfectly in the g wagon? If not, what needs to be changed?

Suggestion:
Before next coming to class, do a bit of homework; look at both transmissions, take pictures of both transmissions, and compare your observations. What do you see?

[1982gwagon]

Originally Posted by Frank Reiner

Suggestion:
Before next coming to class, do a bit of homework; look at both transmissions, take pictures of both transmissions, and compare your observations. What do you see?

Thank you Frank for the instruction... may I ask, however: have you ever done a 280E (W123) sedan automatic transmission swap into a 280GE (W460) g wagon and if so, was it a bolt in, or will it have surprises?

My M110-994 engine in my 280GE failed last week in town - probably a broken rod. Luckily, on TradeMe, our national auction site, I found a same year M110-984 280E (JDM) sedan for $1,000 (US$560) with documented 64,500 km since new when we need it on the farm (it's summer down here). So rather than try to repair my 994 that could take months and cost upward of $8,000 (total rebuild given its age and mileage), I will do a M110 swap. And, when I looked at the 64,500 km transmission sitting on the floor, I thought it might make more sense than bolting the 984 to my transmission that probably has 405,000 miles (not km) on it - provided it is a bolt-in job.

I would love to take your advice, but the gwagon transmission is still in the car. To get to it takes 2 hours each way, including a 40 minute ferry ride, making it logistically complicated. So, given these challenges, I am doing homework, but not with visual aids as you suggest because I can't. Instead I am asking on forums to find someone who has already been there. That's what forums are for, but this is my first foray into the Pelican Parts forum.

When I am done, I will post my findings as a pay-forward.

[Frank Reiner]

Originally Posted by 1982gwagon

the gwagon transmission is still in the car.

If that statement is correct, how to explain the picture of the g-wagon trans above; the one next to the g-wagon oil pan and oil pump!
The pictured trans is not that of an 82 W123.

[1982gwagon]

Originally Posted by Frank Reiner

If that statement is correct, how to explain the picture of the g-wagon trans above; the one next to the g-wagon oil pan and oil pump!
The pictured trans is not that of an 82 W123.

The transmission on the floor came from the W123. The oil pan in front came off my original M110-994 Gwagon engine that failed in 2003. I've brought over parts from the original to make reassembly faster when we pull the current engine (also a M110-994) with the sedan engine.

[1982gwagon]

I bought my 1982 G wagon in 1997

In 2003, the engine failed just as our busy season on the farm started. Rather than endure the pain and delay of a rebuild, the President of the New Zealand Mercedes Club sold me an identical long block M110-994 that came from his G Wagon when he repowered with diesel. I did the swap in the barn with a chain lift from the rafters because it was a like-for-like remove and replace. I stored the dead engine in my workshop where it sat for the next 22 years.

Last week, when collecting glass for a greenhouse that must be completed by the end of the month, on restart, the engine had this deep clank. See https://photos.app.goo.gl/PeivTLFAfjs9Sjvo7 for a video.

Rebuilding a G Wagon engine is expensive (NZD $4,000 to $8,000) and the shops capable of it have a two month waiting list. This is peak summer on the farm, and I need to G Wagon running (it's a work horse, not a recreational vehicle).

I found a 1982 280E sedan for sale for $1,000 that had documented 64,000 Km on it (it had been driven 3 km since 2012). It was at a truck mechanic shop who agreed to do the engine swap, inviting me to do the fiddly bits. The first thing he did was pull the sedan power train, setting the transmission aside on the floor and placing the engine on a workstand.

I began by taking the oil pan off my M110-994 in my workshop and brought it over along with other stripped parts. But looking at the 64,000 km transmission on the floor, I want to know if anyone has done a sedan to G Wagon swap, and if so, what are the external differences (as opposed to gearing which I can live with). If it is a simple bolt-on job, I may do it. But if sizes, linkage or oil lines are different, then I will stick with what I have.

[Frank Reiner]

To address the initial question:

1) The 123 source vehicle was produced between 1977 & 1980.
2) The transmission is a 722.1xx.
3) The transmission in the 460 is a 720.1xx
4) Between the engine and the tail housing the two transmissions are externally the same.
5) If the tail housings/output shafts/output flanges are the same, then the sedan transmission is a bolt-in.

To answer the question a picture of a 460 722.1xx transmission is required.

[1982gwagon]

Thank you Frank.

Looking at my data card, the transmission that should be in the 280GE Gwagon is (7) Transmission: 720109 20 004743 matched to engine 110 994 22 000514.

This engine was replaced with engine 110 994 20 002687 that is currently in the Gwagon.

When I am next in town, I will look for the transmission number on the unit on the garage floor that came out of the sedan.

To add to confusion, I asked this same question on multiple forums, and on https://clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=26940&p=244527#p244527 I was directed to an old thread at PointedThree - sedan transmission v.s. G transmission where someone asked

"Hi guys, What are the essential differences between the g transmission and one from a turbo diesel sedan? to which someone wrote:

• they're physically different. The sedan tranny is actually longer (the tranny mount sits futher back). If you want to install it in a G, the A-frame stabilizing bar between the tranny and t-case must be modified. If you want to be able to put the shifter in 1'st gear position (that doesn't mean that it will actually work...I'm only talking to be able to put the shifter in that position), you have to build a custom "blocking plate" that allows teh shifter linkage to colapse, and the shifter to go in 1'st gear position.
• the output flange for the driveshaft is different, but easily interchangable
• the lines that go to the oil cooler have different fittings on the tranny side(smaller)
• G-tranny has much bigger oil capacity (deep oil cooler)
• oil filler/dip-stick different
• throttle position adjustment is different (on the G is with a rod, on the sedan is cable)
• I've heared that teh torque converter is different (different stall speed and torque multiplication factor, but I never checked the numbers)

I'm hoping this is solely referring to the turbo diesel sedan, and not the 280E sedan I bought because if it involves all the above, it would push a swap-over into the too-hard basket.

Interesting that your records show the 1982 280E was actually produced in 1977-80. I tried to do a lookup using WBD12303312064358 but get next to nothing. I cannot access the usual build sheet that would have the 280E transmission number.

Unfortunately, I just sold the engineless car on an auction site (for NZ$205 - someone got a real bargain), so I can't look for another ID other than the chassis plate I already photographed.

Which brings up another question. The Japanese Domestic Market plate says the engine is an M110-984 which is the high horsepower, high compression motor. But unlike my low compression M110-994, the 984 has the air pollution pump and hoses (AIS) - all of which I have removed, along with a catalytic converter all of which goes with the sedan to the new buyer. My 994 has G wagon exhaust manifolds that are different and do not have AIS.

I found one web site that says the US and Japanese engines are low horsepower, and certainly the AIS is notorious in US spec cars of that era for derating US-bound engines. But all records say the 984 is a high compression engine. I am hoping there are no M110-984 low compression engines, and by removing AIS, I will have the 175 or 182 hp engine instead of my current 154 hp 994 low compression engine).

[Frank Reiner]

Re: Comments from another forum.

"Hi guys, What are the essential differences between the g transmission and one from a turbo diesel sedan?"

"throttle position adjustment is different (on the G is with a rod, on the sedan is cable)"

Please note that the model of the "sedan" is not specified, nor is the transmission type. The highlights are the tell. The rod type throttle link is on the 720.1 trans, and the cable type throttle link is on the 722.3 trans.

Yes, the 722.3 trans is longer than the 720.1, not because it is a "sedan" trans, but because it is a 722.3!!

Based on drawings (not photos), the tail housings and output shafts of the 720 and the 722 are the same. The output flanges are different; the one from the 720 can be installed on the 722.

[1982gwagon]

Originally Posted by Frank Reiner

To address the initial question:

1) The 123 source vehicle was produced between 1977 & 1980.
2) The transmission is a 722.1xx.
3) The transmission in the 460 is a 720.1xx
4) Between the engine and the tail housing the two transmissions are externally the same.
5) If the tail housings/output shafts/output flanges are the same, then the sedan transmission is a bolt-in.

To answer the question a picture of a 460 722.1xx transmission is required.

Thanks Frank. Hearing the W123 was made between 1977-80 is interesting because the registration claimed it is a 1982. I found two ID plates, one of which shows it was imported into Japan by Western Automobile Co. Ltd that says the engine number is 110-984 12 066730.



It is left hand drive (Japan cars are RHD) and it came with the exhaust gas recirculation (ERD) pump and pipes that I will be removing because the G Wagon exhaust manifolds are different, and mine does not have ERG nor a catalytic converter. This all suggests the M110 984 is the US-market engine.

But I am confused about what to expect with horsepower.

According to the Mercedes Engine and model survey, the M110-984 is a Model 114.062 engine is a "for USA" model that produces 130 KW@6,000 RPM (174 HP),



Other sources say the Model 114.062 engine is a m110.981

Despite checking numerous databases, I am unable to find the data product vehicle specification sheet for the 280E sedan. Would you be able to find out what engine I have in terms of performance?

• Horsepower
• compression ratio
• regular or premium fuel, etc?

[Frank Reiner]

Originally Posted by 1982gwagon

Thanks Frank. Hearing the W123 was made between 1977-80 is interesting because the registration claimed it is a 1982. I found two ID plates, one of which shows it was imported into Japan by Western Automobile Co. Ltd that says the engine number is 110-984 12 066730.

It is left hand drive (Japan cars are RHD) and it came with the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) pump and pipes that I will be removing because the G Wagon exhaust manifolds are different, and mine does not have ERG nor a catalytic converter. This all suggests the M110 984 is the US-market engine.

But I am confused about what to expect with horsepower.

According to the Mercedes Engine and model survey, the M110-984 is a Model 114.062 engine is a "for USA" model that produces 130 KW@6,000 RPM (174 HP),

Other sources say the Model 114.062 engine is a m110.981

Despite checking numerous databases, I am unable to find the data product vehicle specification sheet for the 280E sedan. Would you be able to find out what engine I have in terms of performance?

• Horsepower
• compression ratio
• regular or premium fuel, etc?

1) Engine Model & Serial #
Clean off the top surface of the cylinder block just behind the distributor. The numbers are stamped there.

2) I noticed that the chassis was LHD, hence non-JDM.
What you have termed an "EGR pump" is actually an air injection pump. Air injection into the exhaust gasses is a different system from EGR.

3) Although the M110.984 was supplied in the USA, it was also supplied in the rest of the world; it is the standard engine for W123/280E.

4) If the numbers on the block confirm that you have an M110.984, it will be 9:1 compression ratio, and 174 or 182HP, depending on version of intake manifold.
When the spark timing is set to "standard" specification premium fuel will probably be required. With a bit of retard, it will run on regular.

Can you post some pictures of the intake manifold, and the fuel distributor?

[1982gwagon]

Intake Manifold
Below are two photos of the intake manifold and fuel distributor after bolting together - along with notes. Both are from the g wagon.

The sedan donor engine could not hold an idle, the injectors were shot, and the whole system had suffered from sitting for 12 years. But on the G wagon, last year I bit the bullet, replaced everything from the fuel pump to the injectors to cure hard starting when warm, so I completely swapped over the G's fuel system. The workshop put the engine back in yesterday and tried to crank the engine over expecting it not to start, but it fired up immediately, which was a welcome surprise (and noisy as he had not connected the exhaust pipes yet)

Model
I can confirm the stamped engine number matches the plate, it is a 110 984.

JDM or not
The fact the sedan was LHD but has a Japanese plate, suggests it may have been a Japanese gray market import (semi-official). But in trying to determine the timing, I found this thread which says "Japanese (...your speedo will be half white, half yellow)" which in fact it is (in km, not miles). This raises the question as for what country Daimler Benz designed the car. It is LHD with pollution controls but is recorded as having been imported from Japan in 2012 with a Japanese ID plate, and it appears to be a one-owner, cherished car in Japan (driven 2,500km/year over 26 years) that was ordered by the importer from the factory - hence the Japanese speedometer.

Timing Reading that same web page, it is very confusing to determine how to set the timing. As a farm truck that gets horrible mileage, I would rather run on regular (in NZ Premium fuel costs US$2/gallon extra), which as you say, will work if I retard the timing. The workshop will do that for me (great arrangement, he allowed me to bring my tools and do all the swap-over work, then he does the heavy lifting and final bits), but has asked what the timing should be set at.

Is it standard European...

• 26° before TDC measured at cylinder 1 at 3500 RPM

Or is it designed with Japanese settings? And with Japanese, there are three settings depending on the model year. The registration says it is a 1982, but you wrote "The 123 source vehicle was produced between 1977 & 1980". The Chassis Number is 123 033 12 064358

• <1981 idle: 800±50 rpm, CO: 0,4 - 2,0%, Timing: TDC at idle

• 1981: idle: 750±50 rpm, CO: 50±10*, Timing: 10° before TDC at idle

• >1981: idle: 750±50 rpm, CO: 50±10*, Timing: 2° after TDC at idle

All very confusing, but I want to give the workshop specs to set it to run on regular, and then will probably adjust by ear after driving up hills. I did that when setting the CO and when I had it tested, the shop said it was right in the middle of the specs.

Question: What numbers should I give the workshop to set the timing?

Transmission
This thread began asking if the sedan transmission would fit in the G wagon (before we pulled the power train, so could not do a visual). The visual has confirmed they are too different for an easy swap. The good news is the guy who bought the donor sedan for $205 on the auction site agreed to pay $800 for the sedan transmission with 64,000 km on it, so the donor motor was free.

[Frank Reiner]

Ignition timing:

Set per European spec.
26deg. BTDC @ 3500 RPM w/ all vacuum lines removed from distributor.

[Bruno202]

Thanks!