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-   -   ML recall notice: Power Steering pump clamp... (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=69000)

Gilly 08-13-2003 05:18 PM

Worst case scenario is that there isn't enough room to do the job and MB would need to pay to R&R the radiator.
As an alternative maybe they would need to come up with a special tool or procedure to do it without removing the radiator.
Another alternative would be to come up with some other design for the clamp which would somehow retain the clamp to the radiator, not allowing it to slip back on the pipe.
If a guy was real desperate (and cheap)(Hey, this is starting to sound more and more like Mercedes all the time!) you could use wire, like safety wire, wrap it around the clamp, then pass the wire through the heater core and tubes and secure the clamp in that manner to the left side tank of the radiator.
See if Ol' Gilly gets the credit for that fix!:D

Gilly

BenzBob 08-13-2003 05:53 PM

How About 2003 ML's?
 
Since the "fix" for mine is just a different style hose clamp, has the design been modified on the new (2003) ML's?

Also, I was wondering why this condition is unique to the ML. Don't other Classes in the Mercedes line use a similar (or the same) power steering pump? If not, is this just a case of Mercedes using a part sourced from a US manufacturer?

Attaching hoses to steel tubes is "Old Tech" and everyone should know by now what works and what causes failures. How could something such as putting a bulge at the end of a steel tube have been overlooked or is this just cost cutting?

My impressions on the ML is that Mercedes tried to develop a lot of new relationships with US suppliers when they started manufacturing in the US and are suffering from not choosing Quality parts manufacturers.

kenyee 08-14-2003 01:20 PM

more like US suppliers are crappier than Euro suppliers
 
All you have to say is "glass/tow sensor" to 1998/1999 owners and you'll know what I mean :-P

I'm also really surprised no one noticed the radiator needed a flare on the nipple...seems like basic design practice. Would love to know where the radiator is sourced from...

BenzBob 08-14-2003 02:56 PM

Problem at radiator side only?
 
Gilly:

Sorry I did not read your last post before writing mine. It looks like we both may have been writing our replies at the same time.

Sounds from what you said, the hose securement issue is at the radiator side only. Am I correct in that understanding? If this is the case I, like Kenyee, would be interested to know who supplies the radiators for the ML. Could it be Modine who is not far from you in Kenosha, WI? I would think that anyone who has been in the radiator business for any length of time would know to put a "bulge" in the connection tube to provide a reliable hose connection.

I have also seen a post in Edmunds where a 2003 ML350 that was delivered only weeks ago has had the hose blow off on 3 separate occasions. This after the dealership repaired it 2 times with, what I presume is the recommended "fix." MB is now offering to replace the vehicle with a new clone of what this gentleman originally purchased (as if there is any difference). Mercedes has known of this problem for some time before the Recall was issued. They had time to initiate a change on current production but it appears the problem goes on.

At this rate, I will still have my 1995 C280 after I have gotten rid of my 2000 ML320 and 2003 C230K. The older models seem to have the qualities that will make them last far longer than newer models which do not appear to be cost-effective to maintain after the new car warranty expires.

DDuke 08-14-2003 06:59 PM

Had my Recall work done today. Shortly after leaving(20miles) the dealership the check engine light comes on. Is there something they could have knocked loose in the process of repairing the clamp,a vaccum hose or something? Where should I look?

Thanks
David

BenzBob 08-15-2003 04:40 PM

Power Steering Cooling Tube Design
 
Well, today I compared the design of the power steering cooling tube design on my 1995 C280 with that on my 2000 ML320. I guess I could not believe that if Mercedes was using this design before that they would make changes to something that had proven reliability.

The design of both is much the same. It appears that neither vehicles have a bulge at the end of the tube on the radiator or power steering pump side. Also, the design of the tube clamp is equivalent. The main difference I could see is that the rubber tube on the C280 is much more rigid than that of the ML 320 which allows more compression. The more resilient rubber tube on the ML320 may allow progressive compression of the tube over time and if not tightened could allow it to slip off. Also, since most "blowoffs" came in cold climates during cold weather, contraction of the rubber due to temperature could be an issue. For anyone who has had their vehicle updated under the recall it would be interesting to know if they replaced the hose also under this recall or just the hose clamp. I heard they were going to the use of the "worm-style" hose clamp as an upgrade, but as I said the style clamp they are using is the same as that used on German production.

One other side comment, I do not know of another vehicle brand that runs a cooling line from the power steering pump to the radiator. There may be other European brands but I doubt you will ever see this kind of engineering in an American vehicle.

PaulH 11-16-2003 01:07 AM

Just had my ML power steering clamp replaced (yesterday) under warranty and now they replace the hose, too.

ML320 11-16-2003 12:41 PM

Mine was just changed, since I couldn't prevent this foolishness. It has the same original hose, and the same type of clamp. They only change the hose if it was damaged.

Next real cold spell and it will go POPP! POPP! POPP! again as it will on other cars.

Gilly 11-16-2003 08:25 PM

Wolfgang and others:

If you want to actually PREVENT this from happening, you need to get the tool which will put this "bulge" on the end of the cooler pipe (coming off the radiator) so that the hose can't slip off the cooler pipe.

Gilly

PaulH 11-16-2003 09:52 PM

My dealer mechanic said that they just got info (last week) to change the hose with the clamp. My service writer was also surprised to hear this. However, Gilly has the real answer.

kenyee 11-17-2003 11:37 AM

welding a ring on?
 
I know the right fix is to use the nipple expansion tool, but I'm curious why you don't just take a ring that fits over the current nipple and solder/weld it on? Would the PS fluid melt the solder? Seems it would be easier to get into the tight confines w/ a torch than a tool...of course, this is just idle chat since MB is doing neither :-)

ML320 11-17-2003 12:57 PM

Gilly, Paul and Ken, thanks for the replies. I'm not so sure about this solution either. It may just be a failsafe connection, better than busting an internal seal (expensive!). As I see it the problem is that the radiator remains too cold, let's say minus 30 degrees, for much too long until the engine warms up and starts circulating some fluid through it. Would it not be better to go back to the initial design, with the exterior steering cooling tube, like on MB cars, as shown in the M-Class introduction manual MY98 page 78, top picture? That single tube can heat up faster as needed, and independantly from the radiator.

PS. Looked up the part numbers:

163 460 20 24 $97.00 steering oil cooler tube
163 994 03 48 $1.50 mounting clip for above

azinn 11-17-2003 07:32 PM

Maybe they should consult with the Jeep Division of DaimlerChrysler for a fix............. I never had this problem with my 1994 & 1997 Grand Cherokee's. ;)

ML320 11-17-2003 07:53 PM

Quote:

Maybe they should consult with...
No, they should ask the MY 1998 M-Class designers. Until 4/98 built they had exterior cooling tubes, and if I remember correctly, few if any went POPP! POPP! POPP!

azinn 11-18-2003 03:21 PM

Well since I've had both recalls done and will be heading for sunny Florida the first part of December for the winter............. I shouldn't have to worry about the POPP! POPP! POPP! :D


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