Iran Breaks the Seals

[MTI]

Since this story has gone through a complete news cycle without comment here, I figured it must have slipped past the cognoscenti here.

AP VIENNA, Austria
Iran is once again building centrifuges that can be used to make nuclear weaponry, breaking the UN nuclear watchdog agency's seals on the equipment in a show of defiance against international efforts to monitor its program, diplomats said Tuesday.

Iran has not restarted enriching uranium with the centrifuges -- a step that would raise further alarm.

The United States accuses Iran of seeking to develop nuclear weapons and wants the UN Security Council to take up the issue. Iran denies the charge and says the centrifuges are part of a nuclear program aimed only at producing energy.


According to other reports, Iran notified the International Atomic Energy Agency that it was going to break the seals, which maintans their compliance as a signer to the anti-proliferation treaty. Speculation is that Iran is trying to gain a "bargaining position" with the European diplomats that are meeting later this year to discuss Irans nuclear program.

[Lebenz]

Hopefully they’ll, you know, be nice guys and not invite everyone to the BBQ.

[KirkVining]

Perhaps we, you know, invaded the wrong country. We seem to have a country that aided al-Queda, who is building weapons of mass destruction. Unfortunately, our Army is busy right now, due to a colossal mistake. Miscalculations on an apocalytic scale from a bunch of far-right ideologues who hijacked and misdirected a war effort, totally ignoring what really needed to be done to protect the American people. Let's hope the people of Israel don't pay a horrible price for our incredibly idiotic leadership. Iran will soon be free of threat of American invasion. We gave these bastards a two year head start. What a bunch of god damn fools.

[Lebenz]

Originally posted by KirkVining
What a bunch of god damn fools.

Kirk,

maybe get a little exercise?

[KirkVining]

If Iran detonates a nuke, the whole world is going to change, and not in our favor. We are going to have nuclear weapons in the hands of religous fanatics, something this planet has never experienced, and your guy made it possible. A bunch of god damn fools.

[Lebenz]

Originally posted by KirkVining
If Iran detonates a nuke, the whole world is going to change, and not in our favor. We are going to have nuclear weapons in the hands of religous fanatics, something this planet has never experienced, and your guy made it possible. A bunch of god damn fools.

I surrender. you are not worth reading or responding to. Congratulations, Kirk, I learned how to use the ignore feature just for you.

[LK1]

Kirk,
Just keep it up. Some people here would rather bury their heads in the sand then address an issue that is too large for them to comprehend.
Let me translate for them: World go BOOM-BOOM because we invaded the wrong country. Oops, I meant Saddam was a bad guy and the world is safer now that ONLY North Korea, Iran, Pakistan and probably Syria have nukes.
Thank you George Bush for your FINE leadership! I feel MUCH safer.

[KyGuy]

OK. Since Bush "made it possible", what do we do? Get the French, Germans and Russians to invade in our place? Have the UN move into Iraq to provide security and free our troops up to take on the "mad Mullahs"? Call a time out and send them to their room?

I get the fact you hate Bush and the world's a mess and it's all his (and the neo-cons) fault and the economy really isn't better, but the discussion could be more productive (not to mention interesting) with some suggestions with SOLUTIONS and RESOLUTION as the objective.

Ciao for now

[Old300D]

Originally posted by KyGuy
I get the fact you hate Bush and the world's a mess and it's all his (and the neo-cons) fault and the economy really isn't better, but the discussion could be more productive (not to mention interesting) with some suggestions with SOLUTIONS and RESOLUTION as the objective.

Ciao for now

It seems obvious where to start - vote Bush out. He's shown zero ability to lead the world and work with allies, and zero ability to acknowledge mistakes or correct a plan once proven wrong.

I can understand why people would want to tune out this noise - these are very serious issues that the administration is not dealing with, it's a bit overwhelming.

[yal]

Building centrifuges is just too much of clue for us to do anything. Now if they were only "boasting" about building them then we'd have to invade.


"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."

United Nations Address
September 12, 2002

"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."

Radio Address
October 5, 2002

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."

"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."

Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
October 7, 2002

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003

[KirkVining]

Originally posted by Lebenz
I surrender. you are not worth reading or responding to. Congratulations, Kirk, I learned how to use the ignore feature just for you.

Cut it out man, the tears are sticking up my keyboard.

[KirkVining]

Originally posted by KyGuy
OK. Since Bush "made it possible", what do we do? Get the French, Germans and Russians to invade in our place? Have the UN move into Iraq to provide security and free our troops up to take on the "mad Mullahs"? Call a time out and send them to their room?

I get the fact you hate Bush and the world's a mess and it's all his (and the neo-cons) fault and the economy really isn't better, but the discussion could be more productive (not to mention interesting) with some suggestions with SOLUTIONS and RESOLUTION as the objective.

Ciao for now

I guess I'll just repeat them again:

1) Fight a real war. Raise taxes, re-institute the draft. Time to cut the **** and quit playing games

2) Withdraw the army from Iraq, perferably into Iran if its not to late, and begin a massive invasion of Afganistan.

3) Get rid of all the star wars bull$hit, the European occupation force, advanced fighter planes that we no longer need, in fact all the weapon systems that are cold war relics, and spend the money on a massive refitting of our Armed Forces into a special-forces type units that can fight wars of assasination and counter-terrorism against stateless terror networks.

4) Begin a moon-shot type to end our dependence on foreign oil so we don't have to be invovled with these bastards - tax gas guzzlers, tax fuel, whatever it takes to get us out of the middle east permanently. It is our junkie-like consumption habits that are at the root of this whole nightmare.

[KirkVining]

Originally posted by LK1
Kirk,
Just keep it up. Some people here would rather bury their heads in the sand then address an issue that is too large for them to comprehend.
Let me translate for them: World go BOOM-BOOM because we invaded the wrong country. Oops, I meant Saddam was a bad guy and the world is safer now that ONLY North Korea, Iran, Pakistan and probably Syria have nukes.
Thank you George Bush for your FINE leadership! I feel MUCH safer.

I've just never figured out what that guy wants from me. If he is looking for someone who is going to work hard to make him comfortable so he doesn't get upset, than perhaps he should look into growing up a little. He's harrassed me since I arrived here and I could give a rat ass what his problem is.

[Botnst]

Originally posted by KirkVining
Perhaps we, you know, invaded the wrong country. .....

Oh, are you suggesting that now we should invade Iran?

I think we should encourage the French to lead the vanguard. We can provide them with logistical support.

Of course, it would be a damned shame if the WMD program we all believe IRAN is pursuing, turned-out to be WRONG!

Nah, that couldn't happen. Even France, Germany and the UN think Iran is hiding something. I'm sure our allies would stand with us if we confronted them. Even if all we have is circumstantial intelligence, modest physical evidence, and testimony from dissident eye-witnesses.

But you know what, some knuckleheads will believe its true, even if it isn't perfectly proven.


B

[KirkVining]

Nuclear weapons program are impossible to hide. As a former resident of Los Alamos, NM, I know of what I speak. The industrial processes required to refine uranium into enriched uranium and plutonium are large scale industrial operations that leave tell-tale environmental signatures that are impossible to hide, even if the output is only a few hundred lbs of the stuff. To enrich uranium requires a nuclear reactor be built, and they are damn hard to hide, given the fact they spew gamma rays about the place and such.

If it is provable that the Iranians support al-Queda in away that strengthens that organization, then they are our enemies. That alone is enough justification to declare war on them, the existance of an atomic weapons program is simply a reason we should be in haste. The only thing I can conclude on why we have not done so is because they have actually built one, and have not announced it to the world by detonating one yet. If that is the case, allowing a nation that is in league with the most potentially deadly, sucidial enemy we have ever faced, to acquire it will be considered one of the greatest blunders in our history.