Experience w/ Pontiac Trans Am?

[Ara T.]

Hey all. I'm 17, and have been driving my 1985 300D Turbo for about 7 months now. I think it's an excellent car, [puts on flame-retardant suit] but I drive a lot around the city and it's not a very nice car in stop and go traffic, especially with the clunky transmission. I do enjoy it quite a bit on the highway though! I've recently been getting interested in muscle cars, the 1970's Trans Ams in particular.

I think they look beautiful and I want something...fast. You should see me in my sister's 2000 Corolla, that car is like a jet on four wheels compared to what im used to! Anyways, I want to own one of these pieces of American history, enjoy it, even keep it and pass it down one day for someone else to enjoy. Of course, the insurance might be a problem (as would gas consumption for a 4.9-6.6 liter V8!), but I figure I could get a fixerupper for a decent price and have a fun project...does anyone have experience with these cars from the range of 1970-1979? Any advice etc from the wisemen?
Thanks.

[KirkVining]

I owned a couple. I was a real Pontiac freak for a while, along with the rest of my entire neighborhood I grew up in. The 70s Firebirds are not particularly well engineered, seem to have a lot of rattles, they are very heavy cars lousy on gas, and they have trouble with doors closing properly, exhaust system is always falling apart, just kind of a loose car in general. On the plus side, they are the best handling cars GM ever made in that era, and will outcorner just about anything, and most of all, T/As with T-tops, cool paint and flares are major babe magnets.

If you buy a cheap one, your going to get one that has had the crap beat out of it for years. I would suggest always running a car fax. Never buy one that has been in an accident - they are loose enough to begin with, and if they have been hit they ain't worth a ****. Always, always have a mechanic look at one of these cars before you buy it, they are the most abused cars in the world. On any typical used TA made in the 70s you will probably need to replace all the subframe bushings, rebuild the front end, replace front and rear springs, etc. The suspensions on these cars just don't hold up. When you buy one, if any of this stuff has been recently replaced its a plus for the car. If your going to really spend some money and buy a low mileage example, you might as well buy a vette instead, they have got better resale and endurance. Most of the guys I know who have collector grade models never drive them because they know they will be loose, worthless pieces of **** as soon as the odo turns 70k.

If you do buy one, stay away from the Pontiac 301 engine, they have a lot of problems. Pontiac 326, 350, 400 and 455 engines are the most desirable. The 326's are really hard to find but it is the best one for this day and age, you can get about 15/18 mpg and they perform as well as the 350. Any engine bigger than that, and you better get ready to buy some serious gas. The Olds 402 is real peppy but nowhere near as strong an engine as the Pontiacs - it's a cheesy excuse for the older Big Blocks that GM stuck in later to cut production costs.

Pontiac bottom ends are strong as hell and don't have to be rebuilt as often as Chevy's, and they love a good top end overhaul. If your lucky and you get one with a Pontiac engine that still has good compression and shows no sign of serious ring wear, have the stock Q-jet carb rebuilt at a speed shop, get a stock Edlebrock Performer manifold, have the heads 3-angled, polished and ported to the manifold at a speed shop, add roller rockers, hipo pushrods and guides, and the thing will scream like a banshee without having to change the cam or pull the engine, for under $1500 if you can R&R the parts yourself and take them to the speed shop, or around 3k if your going to pay a mechanic to do it.

You can do neat things with them if you just get a rolling chassis or one with a blown motor. They are so big and roomy under the hood and they were engineered to take so many different drive train combos, they will take just about any GM drivetrain combo you can get your hands on - the only thing you really have to change is the front coil springs if you upgrade to a 455 from one of the other models.

We built a '72 once by pulling a 71 Olds 455 drivetrain out of an Olds 98. The only soup up we did was a shift kit for the 400 tranny and an Offenhauser manifold, and the thing ran 13s at the drags, and I think we did the whole thing for around $700. A friend of mine had an 80 model where he put a new Chevy 427 Crate motor with a 400 tranny out of a Suburban in one, and it was an animal and a half - without a doubt the most drivable TA I ever experienced and it was also a good reliable car. The way parts and machine shop prices are, a new complete 427 for $2500 is a pretty tempting way to go for the DIYselfer.

Personally, I'd rather pay double to get a decent 70-72 Camaro than mess with the 70's TAs. There are a lot of nice ones that have been well maintained out there and they have a better reputation, are not as heavy and have much better resale.

[el presidente]

Originally Posted by Ara T.

Of course, the insurance might be a problem (as would gas consumption for a 4.9-6.6 liter V8!), but I figure I could get a fixerupper for a decent price and have a fun project...does anyone have experience with these cars from the range of 1970-1979? Any advice etc from the wisemen?
Thanks.

My first MB was an '85 300D....very solid, great car. But you're right! They aren't 'cool' and are friggin' slow.

My buddies sister had a 4.9 turbo Firebird....I was more interested in her than the car But, I did watch a show last night on History Channell about reviving two old Trans Ams (new carbs, intake manifold, exhaust and ). Neat show.

But it reminded me of just how cheap and crappy these cars were made for so long.

Insurance would be an absolute killer for your (or your folks if they're paying). My suggestion: Wait a few years.

That said, the 1977 Black/Gold Trans Am was a big hit!

[MS Fowler]

If I were looking for a Firebird, I think I'd stay away from the T tops. As KV said, all the Firebirds were a little loose even from the factory; the T tops steal a lot of rigidity, and at this point in their life, its probably worse. Although the T tops are allegedly major chick magnets, stay with the solid roof.

[KirkVining]

Those cars are freaking money pits. Buy an SL. You can buy a decent 107 for what you'll put into one of those gas hogs. The last TA I bought as a resto project, I paid 2500 for it and then spent 10 grand putting it into shape. It looked and ran great for about a year, then it turned into a POS again. When the car ran right, it was a blast with the T-tops off, but they just aren't good cars. GM just didn't make any good cars from 72 to around 1997 or so, none of the American car makers did. I traded the thing for a 77 280E, and drove it for about nine years, pretty much trouble free - some front end work, a water pump - and I started attracting a better class of women.

[KirkVining]

Originally Posted by w126

Olds 403 is a great engine. I'd rather have an Olds lump than anything made by Pontiac. The main issue with the 403 is the “windowed” main webbing, casted that way for weight loss -- but it still has a lot of torque for a small block. The nickel content is what makes the early Old's (and Caddy) blocks, and Olds blocks in general, so strong. Much morseso than Chebby. That's why they are catching on with the street rod crowd.

Olds motors are real torque monsters and of course usually lower RPM motors. If you wanted to swap, find a pre 68-70s 455 BB and swap the heads with some better flowing heads such as the Olds G, E, B, J or heads. Building an Olds motor is more expensive than a Chebby, but well worth it.

To each his own, I guess. Those 78-79 403s had lots of cast parts. Pontiac blocks have forged rods and cranks. You could do all kinds hot rodding to them without having to do jack to the bottom end. And torque? We used to have to tie log chains to the 400 and 455 motors because their was so much torque we were busting motor mounts all the time. Olds motors are great for marine use - as an anchor. I've never seen any kind of stock Olds that could touch a GTO.

[Jason Beal]

Yea, those 300 Ds are boring. I'l be willing to take it off your hands if you'd like....You've got an image to uphold man.....

[MTI]

One of the first cars I had was a 70.5 350 Firebird. The only severe problem I ever had was the breaking of the sythetic poly timing belt. Luckily it was under warranty and the repair ended up on GM's tab.

[Ara T.]

Hey guys, dont get me wrong! I think my 300D is totally cool... I love it when my friends can tell i've arrived when i'm outside their houses by the sound of my engine
"Oh, Ara's here!"

I just never really liked how they handle. Or at least mine, it's the only one i've driven... kinda mushy. I do however, love my mom's '86 300SDL...beautiful and more than ample power.

Anyways, thanks for all the feedback... I think waiting a couple years would be the best thing to do... but we'll see what happens.

[E300D]

Today I thought about the same thing. Diesels are a little bit slow in city driving. Currenntly I dont have my own car, but most of the time I run around in my parents 95 E300D. I really enjoy the car on the highway. City is another story. I always get passed by other cars etc...Ok I will live with that, i just meet up with the cars that just passed me at the next red light. But, whenever I take off, it seems like as if the engine is not liking it. I try to have the tranny shift no later than 3200 rpm, however the engine doesnt sound all that greatful. I realize its a 24V diesel and it should like to rev higher than other diesels. Maybe the witner diesel has something to do with this. The car is maintained properly so there shouldnt be any power loss due to poor maint.

I have a little bit of an argument going on in my brain. Here we bought this pristine 1 owner car, its actually quite rare in our area and somehow sometimes I want to let it go. My dad thinks the same, he would consider selling it, however its in such a good shape that it would be dumb to sell it. Also, originally my dad bought this car for himself, he always wanted a MB diesel. However now, he drives 02 Buick century. and my mom and I share the E300D. The buick is a very comfy car and its pretty fast. However the MB just drives so well on the highway....


Ohhh, what a dumb dilema, would anyone pay good money for a mint E300D, 170000 km on the clock, perfect maintenance. :p

[Ara T.]

Is that 300D turbocharged? If not, I understand... but the later turbodiesels like my mom's SDL are pretty fun in the city, plenty of power for passing and such.

[KirkVining]

I agree. The T/A is essentially useful to two classes of people - hot rodders w/lots of cash and horny guys. Otherwise, viewing it strickly as a car, it's a big pain in the ass.

BTW- the secret on those 400-455 Pontiacs is to add roller rockers, which add a little valve lift, and a windage tray, to get all that splashy oil from dragging that monstorous Pontiac crank. You really don't have to do much to those guys to add another 100 horse. Of course, the greatest junkyard find was a set of those 455 H/O heads that Paul mentioned - they will bolt to either the 400 or the 455, and allow you to use 2 4/bbls so you can really be a crazy ass nut on the street. But if you are gong to spend serious moeny on a Ponitac, get a GTO or a Lemans convertible built before 73 to start with. They are much better cars and will actually have a chance of giving you some kind of decent resale, and the cult status of these cars means you will probably get one that has been well maintained.

[Ara T.]

From what i've read the Olds 403 is a smaller block engine than the Pontiac 400 and revs up a bit nicer.

[Wodnek]

Some alternatives, if you want some peppy amercan muscle without expensive insurance (and still chick magnets) 68-72 Cutlass supreme coup or 442, Buick Skylark, or Pontiac equivilant. These have just as much get up and are available in convertibles if that's your fancy. All are easy to work on and seemed to weather the years well if not rusted out.
my .02

[suginami]

I would recommend a 1965-1967 Pontiac LeMans with the 326 V8.

Very affordable, and are virtually indistinguishable from the Pontiac GTO.