My goodness.... such a tragic day....

[ericnguyen]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4116487.stm


US suffers worst Iraq attack yet

The aftermath of the attack at the US base near Mosul, 21 December 2004
Soldiers had just sat down for lunch when the tent was hit
Nineteen US soldiers have been killed in an explosion at a US military base in Mosul, making it the worst single incident for the US military in Iraq.

....
Mosul, Iraq's third biggest city, has experienced a spate of attacks since the middle of November, when insurgents overran police stations, looting weapons.


Much of the city centre is off limits to Iraqi security forces and US troops, who have been the target of daily attacks during the last month.

....

"I'm confident democracy will prevail in Iraq," he said.

.... Just as long as American troops are still in Iraq... I said.

[Zeitgeist]

...I believe those folks were based out of Ft Lewis, just up the road. Pointless loss...

[Brian Carlton]

I'm very distraught myself over the loss of life there today.

Where is the BHD? He has stated that things are getting better in Iraq. It appears that a group of men cannot even sit down to eat a meal unless their quarters are bomb proof.

How anybody can possibly state that things are getting better over there is beyond my comprehension.

I'm still waiting for the BHD to provide a date when the U.S. troop strength will drop below 20,000. He has been unwilling to do so as of this post.

[KirkVining]

This is one of the problems with wars of occupation. Over time, the resistance gets to know you better - knows your tactics and weaknesses, and is able to benefit from intelligence provided by locals the occupiers have to depend on for labor. As time goes on, our casualities will increase. I read with interest an article over at salon that said the Pentagon started pulling out the in-bed-with reporters last month. We aren't even getting half the story of what is going on over there. In just the last three days, hundreds of people have died, and the insurgents are now targeting a wide swath of Iraqi society - scientists, doctors, lowly laborers, election workers - a major very successful campaign of assassination is going on in Iraq and we are not even hearing about it in the states. Our troops are crying out for armor for good reason - they are unable to secure the country, and are sitting ducks, as these unfortunate men and women were. As I have said in prior posts, Bush's idea of war on terror is to have our guys stand around and wait to get shot. The whole approach and basic philosophical underpinning this collosal mistake is critically flawed. If more people in this country had questioned this essentially stupid approach to warfare instead of being good little mindless "patriots", many of those killed would not be dead. Rumsfeld is an incompetent heartless automaton who looks at war like some business deal. Bush is in so deep he can't get rid of him - to do so would be admitting failure in Iraq. This is going to do nothing but get worse.

[Botnst]

Seems ghoulish to get such a charge of reinforcement of conviction out of the death of a bunch of soldiers.

Next time we have a war I think we should make it against the law to kill our soldiers.

[KirkVining]

I am sure you are proud of your patriotism. I suppose you can just chalk it up as another cost of our "success".

[Botnst]

Originally Posted by KirkVining

I am sure you are proud of your patriotism. I suppose you can just chalk it up as another cost of our "success".

F**K you.

[KirkVining]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

I'm very distraught myself over the loss of life there today.

Where is the BHD? He has stated that things are getting better in Iraq. It appears that a group of men cannot even sit down to eat a meal unless their quarters are bomb proof.

How anybody can possibly state that things are getting better over there is beyond my comprehension.

I'm still waiting for the BHD to provide a date when the U.S. troop strength will drop below 20,000. He has been unwilling to do so as of this post.

To understand the whole mentality of those who keep pushing this Iraqi "success" mythology, I recommend the film "Control Room". The Pentagon's propaganda operation is in charge of manufacturing success in Iraq, and the mindless patriots suck it up. Here are the facts: we are in a major war over there - one we ourselves created. We have killed a lot of mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers. We have created vast storehouses of hatred of America across the Muslim world. We have sent a small, understaffed force to face it. The entire Muslim world, after months of Abu Garib photos, pictures of blown up kids, Fallujans in their flattened town, now sees this conflict as equivalent to the struggle against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

[Zeitgeist]

This "war" will produce no victors, just endless division and strife.

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by KirkVining

Rumsfeld is an incompetent heartless automaton who looks at war like some business deal. Bush is in so deep he can't get rid of him - to do so would be admitting failure in Iraq.

You are confused about Rumsfeld. He is excellent at what he is good at. Excellent at assembling and providing a cohesive fighting force to attack and defeat the "army" of another country. He was trained for this and he is good at it. He would be ideal for a war against North Korea, for example (God forbid).

What he is not good at, and what nobody in the military can ever be good at, is to figure out how to win the peace, once the territory has been conquered. This is an impossible task for Rumsfeld, and for any military man for that matter. The war is over. They are done. If it was up to Rumsfeld, he would pack up and go home now.

With regard to GWB, he has a mind that will never admit to any mistakes, as he has clearly shown. This man is dangerous because of his convictions. I never liked Clinton or Kerry because they would drift with the tides, however, the alter ego of Clinton has proven to be far worse.

Originally Posted by KirkVining

This is going to do nothing but get worse.

Agreed, unfortunately.

[elau]

All I have to say is pretty soon alot of the people is going to regret their decision made back in Nov. And have to live the rest of their lives looking at their sons, daughters, cousins, nephews, john boy with one arm or leg less when they come home from Iraq. All for a little misguided patriotism and alot of gun-hoo.

The way it looks, things will only get uglier over there.

[elau]

Originally Posted by Zeitgeist

This "war" will produce no victors, just endless division and strife.

Hey, but Boy George said he is best in uniting. Remember?

[KirkVining]

Bush is about to be a repeat of Nixon. The electorate is already having the biggest case of "buyers remorse" in history - Bush will be inaugurated as the first President in history with less than a 50% approval rating. 70% of the electorate thinks Rumsfeld should be fired. A clear majority now says Iraq was a mistake. The only poll question still in positive territory is "Should we 'stay the course' in Iraq?" - down to a slim majority. A few more incidents like this, and that will change as well. Perhaps he needs to line up his team for another round of medals.

[Botnst]

Takes two to unite, budso. His side is in the majority. So guess who gets to reach out a hand in magnanimous defeat?

[elau]

Originally Posted by tkamiya

What is the right thing to do now? Pull out and see the extremists take hold once again? Continue fighting and risk losing more people?

You bet. Pull out is the only solution. The only reason we are not doing it is because Boy George has to save face. He will not admit he screwed up.

Why keep throwing resources into a place like Middle East where we are not wanted. As long as we have ties with Isreal, no one over there will trust us. Regardless of what people say.