As we've said many times on this board and elsewhere, people are idiots when it comes to driving. We need better driver's education, of course, and we need the cops to enforce something other than speed limits. ("You were tailgating, sir." "Sir, you were blocking the left lane, which is only for passing.")

But I've got another suggestion. How about we *don't* hand out driver's licenses to everybody with a pulse?

Specifically, we restrict those who:
1) Can't pass a written driving test in English
2) Have a felony criminal record, especially if it involves violence (or something to do with a car -- duh!)
3) Have certified mental problems, esp. if they are taking medications for such conditions

We restrict those with epilepsy, for example, until they have had a certain period of time free of seizures. (Though I've often wondered how many seizures the epileptic has had that he concealed. Imagine having a seizure on the night before your suspension expires. Who would be honest enough to tell the examiner the truth?) Perhaps these restrictions could come with periods of suspension, longer for those with more severe violations.

If you say it would violate the convict's civil rights, I say he's already breached the contract between people in a civil society, i.e., he committed a crime. What right does he have to that society's benefits?

Yes, I know enforcing this sort of thing would mean increasing the presence of government in our lives, especially in the case of the mental patients and when it came to checking the period of suspension. And I know that criminals are going to drive, license or not -- though with no license, that would give us another good reason to lock 'em up, far far away from our roads.

People have to get to work, you say? Well, maybe they should just move a little closer to their work and walk, bike, or take a bus. Voila, healthier Americans. Or they could, I don't know, *make sure they meet the restrictions when they apply for a license*? "Don't do the crime if you'd can't do the time"?

No, I don't expect this to happen, and it would be make our society even more 1984-ish than it is now. But anything to reduce congestion *might* well be a good thing.

Suggestions, improvements, obstacles?

__________________
* *
-- Paul W. (The Benzadmiral)
('03 Buick Park Avenue, charcoal/cream)
Formerly:
'97 C230, smoke silver/parchment; '86 420SEL, anthracite/light grey; '84 280CE (W123), dark blue/palomino

I agree with your thoughts 100% - but you have already identified the obstacle(s) - who is going to enforce it . You would have to sort out the problem drivers into piles.
Educational, Medical and Behavioral. The first two have some possibilities for redemption, unfortunately the third has little chance of a fix. I had always desired that drivers with behavioral problems and drive be somehow identified to other motorist. Maybe a flashing beacon, or a red dot on their hoods. I am very pleased that Mississippi has taken steps to identify these motorist with no cost to the taxpayer, and no resistance from the driver - the state actually makes a profit. When driving in Mississippi if you are near a motorist with one of these specialty plates - take appropriate defensive driving action immediately.

__________________
BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif
15 VW Passat TDI
00 E420
98 E300 DT
97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME!
97 S500
97 E300D
86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D
86 300SDL
(o\|/o)

...get caught passing on the right or, as you said, blocking the left lane three times, and your license is suspended!

Get caught passing, merging right, then slowing down so the person you just passed has to pass YOU, automatic loss of license. And if you're talking on the cell phone while doing it, you have to buy the offended party a pizza and a pint.

__________________
1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

So the question is... Do you want more police on the road to catch these bad drivers? If so, then get ready to pay a fine for 3mph over the limit, not signaling for every lane change, or turn, not leaving the correct distance between cars, etc... They won't only catch serious offenders but minor offences too, that you and I may make.

No, I want the people who aren't qualified to be kept off the road in the first place. I want the cops to stop people who are obviously a danger -- not speeding on an open dry road but weaving in and out of slow-moving traffic, almost clipping the fenders of the rest of us, and most especially tailgating. (Of course this requires the cops to exercise judgment, which might be in as short a supply on the police force as in the general populace.)

As for the point that the courts are overflowing, I pointed out that my idea would mean yet more intrusion by Big Brother into our lives. Naturally I don't want that. But maybe, *instead* of concentrating on the BS cases, The Powers That Be could divert the *same* resources toward keeping truly awful, unqualified, or illegal drivers off the damn roads so the rest of us can get somewhere.

TX6513, how does MS manage to ID bad drivers without cost to the taxpayer? Sounds like a great idea (if LA could be persuaded to follow it. Fat chance; they can't even pave the roads properly).

__________________
* *
-- Paul W. (The Benzadmiral)
('03 Buick Park Avenue, charcoal/cream)
Formerly:
'97 C230, smoke silver/parchment; '86 420SEL, anthracite/light grey; '84 280CE (W123), dark blue/palomino

Those people purchace NASCAR Vanity plates for their vehicles

__________________
BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif
15 VW Passat TDI
00 E420
98 E300 DT
97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME!
97 S500
97 E300D
86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D
86 300SDL
(o\|/o)

#1. I agree. Learning to understand English should be mandatory. Ebonics doesn't count, eh?
#3. Moot point since people in this category are already restricted under present law.

#2. Better rethink this one. People with previous felony convictions are already at disadvantage in the job market. And you suggest that they simply move closer to the job or ride a bus? Pretty flippant sir. All that would accomplish would be to make them desperate. Or more desperate.

Rehabilitation works in many cases. Perpetual punishment should be left for those three strike losers guilty of violent crimes. It gives them an extra twenty years to life to think about it.

I remember a movie line where some robber was sentenced to twenty years. He told the judge that he was 68 years old and he couldn't do twenty years. The judge replied, "Then do as much time as you can."

__________________
You can get farther with a smile and a gun than you can with just a smile.

1984 300D
1985 300CD
1980 300SD
1993 SL500

First, let me apologize for my initial post, the tone was undeservedly harsh, I have pulled it.

I think the problem with your proposal is a cause and effect one. I can't imagine there is any corelation between being a felon or having a mental illness and driving skill.

You can't mandate good judgement you can only punish bad actions.

As for 1), I guess that should also apply to Americans driving in Europe or Asia, since I'm not clear on how language plays a role; 2) . . . former criminals can't drive . . . I bet the crime rate on buses and subways skyrockets . . . seriously, there would have to be some showing that there's a relationship between criminal conviction and poor driving to warrant that post conviction penalty; 3) this has potential and runs with the restrictions that are in place for the visually impaired and handicapped.

Frankly, isn't the solution that we just make it tougher and more expensive to get a license in the first place? In Germany it's over $1000 for the initial license. Make the renewal tests a bit more challenging, and consider shorter renewal periods for the AARP among us.

well, an interesting topic....

firstly, it would be nifty if the law enforcement personnel were trained to drive. they are horrible.

secondly, it would be nice if all commercial vehicle drivers were trained to drive.

thirdly, i would like to have cruise controls made illegal. passing on the right is illegal in germany. all the same, i have been forced to do it because someone with cruise control thinks that they own the passing lane on the autobahn in an area where there are no speed limits. i rarely exceed 130mph, but i find it maddening when someone hangs out in the left lane at 65mph. technically, going around that vehicle on the right is illegal. ok, i can be/have been an outlaw.

germany has one law, however, that i wish we would incorporate here. in many areas, trucks are restricted to the right hand lanes. this means no lkw's[18 wheelers to you] hanging out in the passing lane at a cruise controlled speed.

alcohol and driving: i would like to keep these impaired drivers off of the road. and the law enforcement model is tragically ineffective. you just cannot have enough surveillance

so, the solution is quite clear...all vehicles need to have a breathalyzer ignition lock-out. you be determined to be above the threshold, there will be no starting your vehicle. and if you have on-star, a cab will automatically be dispatched to your location to take you home.

i think this to be the only sane approach to this problem. it makes no sense to have a law enforcement program that all too often fails to stop the inebriated before a catastrophe occurs...it makes no sense to funnel all those discovered before a catastrophe into the law enforcement system of injustice.

on a volume basis, breathalyzer interlocks would probably cost the auto manufacturer about $12 per vehicle.

trailering is another issue. personally, i think that just because you can own a vehicle with a trailer hitch should not mean that you are capable of driving with a trailer.

you want to haul a trailer, you need an additional certificate. issued only after a driving test only.

and additionally, how trailers are constructed and loaded need to be addressed.

in no instance should a hot tar device be allowed to be towed on an interstate by a pickemup filled with braceros. imho.

safety inspection stickers. somehow those inspections need to be better policed. it continues to astonish me some of the vehicles that i see with inspection stickers. either some inspection station is for sale or there are lots of fraudulent stickers out there[this is probably the real story].

the end of commercial vehicle deregulation. was it the ronnie reagan era when weigh stations were eliminated? well, i want those weigh stations back. and now i want their scrutiny to go beyond weight. i want them to do complete safety inspections. i want them to evaluate the drivers' condition.

i could go so much further. effective highway safety is a real concern of mine.

if you don't know the book, i recommend AMERICAN AUTOBAHN, for another perspective on this topic.

the problem as i see it (in california certainly) is that the CHP and police are nothing mroe than auxilliary state and local revenue officers. thier job is to write tickets to prop up the budget.

on my way home there is a stretch of balboa ave (san fernando valley, north los angeles county) that has something like a 40MPH limit. its 3 lanes wide each way with a middle lane as well. and everyday i drive by i see at least 4 motorcyle cops, two on each end, tagging passing drivers for speeding. in broad daylight.

yet when there was a home invasion/ assault on one of the neighbors it took them two hours before they sent a car 'round.

you never hear of someone being pulled over for not signalling. or tailgating. or obstructing traffic by staying in the left lane. or not having a roadworthy vehicle. yet everyone has been pulled over for speeding.

although my aunt was once pulled over for going to slowly. 35MPh on the freeway when she first got her license.

__________________
'O=00=O'
bmw 2002.
long live the legend

#1 --> #300 Proof of citizenship or legal residency.
#301 Vision correctible to 20-20.
#302 Literacy in English.

Aw, I don't think a driver's license is a safety issue, else there'd be strict testing and training like Germany has. Licensing in the USA is a way to control access, not enforce safety.

No, it's not a safety issue. I just want fewer drivers on the roads (and for those few to be safer -- hence my agreement that we need tougher examinations).

__________________
* *
-- Paul W. (The Benzadmiral)
('03 Buick Park Avenue, charcoal/cream)
Formerly:
'97 C230, smoke silver/parchment; '86 420SEL, anthracite/light grey; '84 280CE (W123), dark blue/palomino

[QUOTE=Tirebiter]#1. I agree. Learning to understand English should be mandatory. Ebonics doesn't count, eh?#3. Moot point since people in this category are already restricted under present law.

You have to be white to drive?
X.

__________________
Pxland

2001 Honda Accord

1995 Jeep Cherokee

1973 MB 280SEL 4.5