my first time to land at Kai Tak was quite an experience. No wonder they called it "Heart Attack" Kai Tak. It's scary enough in good weather, and it must have been a nightmare in bad weather.

I ride as an observer frequently in a 185 amphib and the worst thing I have ever heard pilot say was, "Uh-oh". We fly at about 120-150 ft so the altitude difference between "Uh" and "-oh" is about 10 ft, or at least that's how my stomach felt.

Another time we ran the pontoon over an underwater obstruction while taxiing that made a long rip and damn-near sank us. Pilot beached the airplane quick.

Crosswind landings in the amphib are exciting, especially in a canal where you get a wind shadow effect from trees on the embankment.

The best airplane trip I was ever on was in a straight floats seaplane. It was a 185 also. We flew from south Louisiana to the Keys the loooong way. Spent the night in Appalachicola, FL. Then Key West the next day. It was a great flight in mid-Spring, clear skies and calm seas.

Flew to Mendoza, Argentina on a Bolivian C-130 out of Hobby one time. That was, "interesting". Refueled in Panama and Bolivia. Had to make a low pass to run people and livestock off the field in Bolivia. The field was in a tropical valley floor with steep Andes Mtns on each side. Making the turn with a heavy airplane between the walls of the valley was exciting.

I've always wanted to fly in a Catalina. Hope I get a chance someday.

When correcting for wind in flight, you just fly a crab angle into the wind to maintain your desired ground track. Its different than landing, where the longitudinal axis of the airplane is aligned with the ground track moments before touchdown.

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=223249,223248,223247,223246

I had to follow that link back to look again today at the 747 landings. This sequence of four pictures amazes me. I really have a hard time believing that this landing did not do serious damage to that plane.

Bingo... that's exactly what was trying to say. Thanks!

Thanks for the kind words! I do like my weekend job very much (I'm a guardsman). Our pilots are top-notch and super nice guys. At least with heavies, I have found that the Air Force treats its maintainers VERY well. It's amazing how picky QA can be on inspecting our work, but I NEVER complain when they point out even the tiniest or most debatable detail. They are doing that so our flight crews have absolute confidence in our airplanes. I don't know what I'd do if one of my jobs caused an injury or death, so those guys signing off red X's and the QA folks looking over my shoulder are a welcome addition to the hangar!

Me too. How did he manage to go from the first photo to the second photo? In the second photo, the airplane is 50 degrees crabbed to the axis of the runway.

Maybe Dave can explain how the pilot could do this. It would seem that he had to add significant right rudder between the first and second photos. Additionally, the wings are level in the second photo, indicating no aileron input. Why?

How that gear did not snap right off the undercarriage is beyond my comprehension.

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?id=223249,223248,223247,223246
same link

From the angle of the camera to the runway I wonder if the first photo is a picture of another landing and not in sequence with the next 3 photos. Maybe the photographer ran a hundred yards real fast between photo 1 and photo 2 to maintain that angle. Don't know, maybe it is in sequence.

There should be a report on a landing like that with the maintenance records for the plane. I have heard landings referred to as a controlled crash. There are varying degrees of control but this one appears to push the limit. I think if he let much more of the smoke out of those tires the whole plane might have gone up in smoke. It is reassuring to know that an airliner can survive such abuse but discomforting to know that I might fly in a plane that has done so.

That should be documented in the aircraft forms... that's a hard landing if I ever saw one! If it were one of our jets, it would be grounded immediately and half the airplane pulled apart for inspection. Then again, when I fly commercial, I can see stuff on the wings that would never pass the inspections with my Air National Guard unit. Hopefully the maintenance folks did as thorough a job as we would have if one of our birds had set down that awkwardly!

I think it is the same landing. The photographer simply used the zoom on the second photo to obtain a pic further down the runway. If you look carefully, you can make out the top of the vertical stabilizer on the China Eastern MD-11 in the second photo. This airplane is clearly visible in the first photo.

Welcome back Bot.

The best ride I've had was in a Beaver :D :D

Seal Bay, Kodiak, AK
http://www.onr.com/user/rleo/Travel/...BeaverSeal.jpg

Psagshak Bay, Kodiak, AK
http://www.onr.com/user/rleo/Travel/...yPsagshak1.jpg

On final, Lilly Lake, Kodiak AK
http://www.onr.com/user/rleo/Travel/...s/FlyLilly.jpg

See all that smoke coming from the landing gear. As you touch down in a crab. the drag caused by the tires touching the runway causes the aircraft to rotate and it aligns the aircraft with the direction of movement. In this case it happened to be down the runway.
This set of photos, and the ones I showed you are during a day when the crosswinds were pretty bad.
For that particular runway you use what is called a IGS landing system. Normally the instrument landing system aligns you with the centerline of the runway. Since a mountain is in the way. The designed the system to lead the aircraft down through the clouds at 90 degrees to the runway centerline. At minimums to the approach you turn right 90 degrees to line up with the runway centerline. If the wind are blowing perpendicular to the centerline. It becomes a Judgement call as to when you start your turn for the runway. As the pictures show some judgement is better than others. Or better yet, "Experience" is the key word here. With strong crosswinds its easy to overshoot or under shoot the centerline. But then you have very little time left in your desent to correct. Your 200" above the ground in a turn and you have 20 seconds to get it right.
Being a monday morning quarterback, in this case. The crew should have gone around. If they were capable of doing it. So many factors here.
As I said when you tough down in a crab. The tires really cause a rotation that is the aircraft straightning out.
More than likely they did a complete inspection of the gear. This would be written up as a hard landing.

Here a picture of the checkerboard panel at the end of the IGS landing system.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=692871&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20747-4U6&WdsYXMg=Znynlfvn%20Nveyvarf&QtODMg=Ubat%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29&ERDLTkt=Puvan%20-%20Ubat%20Xbat&ktODMp=Whyl%205%2C%201998&BP=0&WNEb25u=Wrna&xsIERvdWdsY=9Z-ZCT&MgTUQtODMgKE=Gur%20qnl%20jnf%20svanyyl%20neevirq%21%20Cebonoyl%2C%20guvf%20Znynlfvna%20Qnfu%2040 0%20vf%20znxvat%20ure%20ynfg%20%22ghea%22%20gb%20yvar%20hc%20va%20VTF%20nccebnpu%20ba%20ehajnl%2013. %20Gur%20ynfg%20bcrengvbany%20qnl%20bs%20gung%20nvecbeg%20jnf%20fgnegrq%20jvgu%20gur%20gbeeragvny%20 enva%3B%20ubjrire%2C%20jvaqf%20pbzvat%20sebz%20gur%20fbhgu%20zbirq%20gur%20pybhqf%20naq%20gur%20fha% 20jnf%20oernxvat%20guebhtu.%20Lbh%20pbhyq%20svaq%20znal%20raguhfvnfgf%20nyernql%20neevirq%20ng%20gur %20snzbhf%20%22Purpxre-Obneq%22%20uvyy%20va%20beqre%20gb%20orpbzr%20n%20jvgarff.%20V%20jnf%20nyfb%20dhvgr%20zbgvingrq%20gb% 20or%20bhg%20gurer%3B%20ohg%2C%20vg%20frrzrq%20gung%20gur%20bcrengvba%20fgnlrq%20pbby%20nf%20hfhny.& YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=2996&NEb25uZWxs=2004-10-16%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=25703%2F1025&static=yes&sok=JURER%20%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Ubat %20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29%27%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_v q%20QRFP&photo_nr=180&prev_id=693543&next_id=NEXTID

On this one notice the sparks coming fom the # 4 engine as it touches down first. Rubber on the tires does a much better job on touchdown. I feel an engine change coming on after this flight.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=149179&size=L&sok=JURER%20%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Ubat%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29%27%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_v q%20QRFP&photo_nr=1278&prev_id=149180&next_id=148844

Dave


Dave

I notice most of these bad landings seem to be from cargo planes- I wander if they put the 'B' crews on those since they don't have to worry about a plane load of passengers...

They might also be heavier (= harder to land). Can our pilots enlighten us?

Then again, you don't have to worry about inanimate cargo complaining about a rough landing, so what's the incentive to kiss the ground (besides staying in your mechanics' good graces)?

http://photos.airliners.net/5a5b4bd690033d87ee124b1b322cf062/42432fb6/photos/0/8/1/149180.jpg

This just keeps getting better. This picture deserves the official TwitchKitty PuckerFactor Award.

I have a feeling that many a pilot has taken a first look at that approach and said "gotta be kidding", in various forms, languages, dialects and inflections.