Veteran Has No Regrets For Spitting On Jane Fonda - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Botnst · #46 04-23-2005, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

There seems to be a deeply set belief among many Americans that the flag (our flag God******!) is some sort of magical talisman that confers legitamacy over whatever happens beneath its unfurled magnificence.

Spray agent orange over 10 to 20 per cent of a tiny nation that couldn't threaten us in 200 years? No problem. Nuke 'em, a la Goldwater and W's fondest ambitions? Go for it!

Jane Fonda went to Vietnam because we were about to bomb the dikes (not dykes) which would have led, by most estimates, to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Some witnesses say we'd already starting bombing them. It was cool with Nixon, it's on tape. We're talking serious war crimes on top of layers of war crimes we dealt to that dirt poor slice of swampy real estate, such as carpet bombing of civilian areas (yeah, we did it, there's lots of proof).

My Christian upbringin' taught me that sin has it's penalty. I say if anyone should'a been hung it was that pompous pinhead macho pretender, Gen. Westmoreland. Can you spell sh** for brains, boys and girls?

I say hats off to Fonda, warts and all, bratty and pretentious though she may have been. At least she stood up and said, "Not only no, but HELL no."

Give it a rest dude. Go get a massage or a hooker or something.

All the best,

War is one of those things when you like, kill people and break things. Usually the people who kill and break the most effectively are the ones that win. But you're practically guaranteed to lose when you leash the military with strange rules, like those the military had to deal with in Vietnam.

Would Vietnam have been better off today, or worse off today, had the US military been allowed to win the damned war?

B

pxland · #47 04-23-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

But hey, doc, don't let me interupt your non-stop face pounding, a public service, no doubt.

I cannot trust anyone who hasn't seen "Office Space". Liberal or conservative. Bro.

Paul X.

Sagittarius · #48 04-23-2005, 11:51 AM

I agree. Ms. Fonda should be charged with treason and high crimes and sent immediately to Abu Dhaib prison.

In 1967 she was a terorist herself and always will be - but then, when you're head is empty ... can we really blame her?

schwarzwagen · #49 04-23-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I don't justify her actions, that's her life and her problem. I think I explain it rather accurately.

cmac2012 was making excuses for her, "oh she was just a little girl and didn't know it was a big bad world out there."

schwarzwagen · #50 04-23-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Jane Fonda went to Vietnam because we were about to bomb the dikes (not dykes) which would have led, by most estimates, to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. Some witnesses say we'd already starting bombing them. It was cool with Nixon, it's on tape. We're talking serious war crimes on top of layers of war crimes we dealt to that dirt poor slice of swampy real estate, such as carpet bombing of civilian areas (yeah, we did it, there's lots of proof).

yeah, yeah, yeah. my father and the rest of the soldiers over in vietnam are war criminals. yeah, yeah, yeah. and the commanders wanted to kill innocent civilians for fun, yeah, yeah, yeah. very one was smokin' dope and raping women, yeah, yeah, yeah.

riethoven · #51 04-23-2005, 01:27 PM

Liberal here - writing to raise your blood pressure - not so dumb - not so naive. Vietnam was a huge waste for the US, if you can admit that, then maybe you can understand the sentiment that ran strong during the war. But that time the US people got it wrong, they not only blamed the government but the soldiers (like they could help being drafted). Now, we support our troops (God bless em because the DOD is running them into the ground, and recruitment is down), but I can't support any wars - especially if you looked at things like human suffering that is happening now, we should be in Sudan or North Korea.

Jane was trying to make people aware that the war was wrong and she did it in a very stupid way. There were plenty of others out there who were doing the same.

I think that 30 years later we can see that Vietnam was a waste. Thirty years from now we will see that the invasion into Iraq was a waste too, unless you consider that the Bush family now feels better because they got Saddam. Oh, and maybe we got a little more oil to pour into our gas guzzling SUVs, instead of looking at conservation and alternate fuels. (An issue near to many of us dieselheads)

Defense is one thing, but Vietnam and Iraq are not defense, they are imperialism, just like we have done in many other countries in the world, usually without a war first. I think I would die to defend our land, but not to make good on some political vendetta.

Long live the US system of free speech that allows us all to express our opinions. (jane too!. I know she is just out to sell books). By the way, I think Ted Turner is great too, and the Atlanta Braves.

Botnst · #52 04-23-2005, 01:43 PM

I agree that Vietnam was wrong, but for completely different reasons. I think it was wrong for us to support French imperialism.

The UN divided Vietnam into North and South and Ho violated that division almost immediately after securing Soviet assistance in his desire for uniting the country, damn the UN mandate (you know, the UN, that bastion of virtue and freedom). The Soviets and the western allies were busy trying to contain the communist expansionism worldwide. The (flawed, IMO) thinking was that we could use Ho's violation of the division between north and south Vietnam as a reason to confront communist expansion into southeast asia. Kennedy bought into that line and Johnson essentially manufactured an excuse.

Where I differ with most folks who opposed the war is from the time our forces were on the ground, we should have unleashed the military to win the damned war instead of Johnson's micromanaging the damned thing from the Whitehouse with his spinless butt-kisser, McNamara. Don't put the military into a conflict that you do not intend to fully engage.

That is the same danger that anti-war folks are providing the military with concerning Iraq. The time to oppose the Iraq war is past. It is now time to win the damned thing, kick everybody's ass who stands in our way, help establish a form of democracy, protect it while it gets established, then get the heck out.

Was it right or wrong to get into Iraq? Come back in 40 years and the argument will rage just as certainly as the argument about Vietnam. But for goodness sake, support the military doing their job. Push for victory. Doing less endangers young men and women. Both ours and Iraqi.

Bot

H2O2 · #53 04-23-2005, 02:11 PM

Wait, are you trying to micro-manage the anti-war movement? The time to protest an insane military conflict is before, during and after said insanity. I ain't gonna muzzle it so the military industrial complex can ramp up the insanity, no way-no how. Support the troops by bringing them home, and keeping them home, where they belong...ah, but you knew that already.

Botnst · #54 04-23-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2O2

Wait, are you trying to micro-manage the anti-war movement? The time to protest an insane military conflict is before, during and after said insanity. I ain't gonna muzzle it so the military industrial complex can ramp up the insanity, no way-no how. Support the troops by bringing them home, and keeping them home, where they belong...ah, but you knew that already.

Sure, if it's insane. But if it's not insane, then working to stop a war while men and women are engaged will cost even more lives to no good end.

Mike552 · #55 04-23-2005, 03:01 PM

What Bush did with Iraq, whether you agree with the reasons or not, was what any great military leader throughout history has done; he transferred the battle to THE ENEMY's TERRITORY as fast as possible. This is what was done in Iraq, Vietnam, in Israel's wars, Charlemagne did this, and so did the Ottomans and the Persians, and the Greeks ,etc., etc., etc.

I agree with the fellow who posted about it being France's fault in Vietnam. It's true. Just like it's England's fault about the partitioning of the Arab countries and the creation of a conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians, as they promised the land to both of them.

Yeah, but all of a sudden, it's all America's fault. Gimme a break!
I'm not even American, and all I can say is I WISH I WAS. America is the fairest country in the world. Now, with that said.... bring the troops home!

I agree with Botnst that you can't micro manage a big army. This is definitely a mistake. Either carpet bomb, or not. The one mistake that America keeps making: they publicize everything. If the Iraq war was to be done "humanely", it had to be done with black ops, quietly. Not take over the country and be responsible for the health and well being of the ctitizens, maintaining security, reconstruction, etc., while ignoring the safety of the troops.

Sorry for the topic diversion, now back to regularly scheduled programming....

boneheaddoctor · #56 04-23-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Sorry bro, the revisionist history is the stuff you've been digesting along with your liberal/witch hunt crowd.

I heard an admiral (sorry, can't remember his name), a former POW, on a conservative talk show on S.F. hate radio KSFO's the "David Gold Show," (you'd like him) stick up for Fonda, saying that most of the accusations against her were angry, paranoid fabrications. OK, he didn't use those words but he did say most of it was just not true, even though he didn't agree with what she did.

I tip my hat to a guy like that, we could us a little more of that kind of honesty.

But hey, doc, don't let me interupt your non-stop face pounding, a public service, no doubt.

And you believe Clinton was never offered Osama Bin Laden by Sudan too?

schwarzwagen · #57 04-23-2005, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike552

Just like it's England's fault about the partitioning of the Arab countries and the creation of a conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians, as they promised the land to both of them.

exactly, england carved up the territory. go blame them.

schwarzwagen · #58 04-23-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2O2

Wait, are you trying to micro-manage the anti-war movement? The time to protest an insane military conflict is before, during and after said insanity. I ain't gonna muzzle it so the military industrial complex can ramp up the insanity, no way-no how. Support the troops by bringing them home, and keeping them home, where they belong...ah, but you knew that already.

what's the point of having a military if you are not going to use it in response to an attack on your own soil? i bet you supported the decision to go to afghanistan, right? well, we are still occupying that country as well.

H2O2 · #59 04-23-2005, 04:31 PM

Damn, I must've missed the news accounts of Afghani attacks against the states...(note to self, must get cable tv--missing too much "news")

Hell no, I didn't/don't support the attack, invasion and occupation of (formerly) sovereign nations.

Go after perps not peeps.

Botnst · #60 04-23-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2O2

Damn, I must've missed the news accounts of Afghani attacks against the states...(note to self, must get cable tv--missing too much "news")

Hell no, I didn't/don't support the attack, invasion and occupation of (formerly) sovereign nations.

Go after perps not peeps.

FYI, Afghanistan is where the 9/11 hijackers trained in camps funded and directed by Osama and others. Prior to invasion, we demanded of the Afghan gov, Osama and his staff and soldiers. Afghanistan refused.

Had a regime change and elections. Still have a civil war (continuation of the previous 3,000 years or so, I'd guess). But Al Queda no longer has bases there or anywhere else. They are suspected of having some serious support in the tribal Hindu Kush region of Afghanistan/Pakistan. the bad guys die pretty regularly up there. I hope more of them die or marry and take-up farming.