Polishing Glass -- "tempered" tag, etched in - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #1 11-16-2005, 05:09 AM

I'm building a Gazebo in a guy's back yard. He's a bit nuts but likeable -- a real character. You know the joke about English majors not making any money? This guy's an editor, has people lining up to pay somewhere around $100 per hour for his Phd in English expertise and sentence structure tips.

Anyway, I came into this after it had been maybe 1/3 finished and he had already ordered solid mahogany windows and doors. Pretty deluxe for a gazebo. He wants it enclosed and heated. He'll take clients in there.

The door has really obvious etchings on every pane assuring one and all that each and every one of these panes is tempered, have no fear, should you fall through one of these panes, it will not leave a jagged edge which could slice an artery. The owner is not happy, I don't blame him. He got this semi-aged looking glass, little veins and ridges running through it, bought a premium product and he's got this crap.

Years ago, I polished out a bunch of plasterer induced scratches (so they suspected) on some expensive beveled edge glass in some windows and doors. They had some cerium oxide which apparantly, is the standard item for polishing glass. Think I'm going to try it.

My question is, anybody know of any other solutions? Will the tempered glass buff down as easily as regular glass?

Shame about the damn tag. The door maker says they don't like it either but it's a $300,000 fine for not tempering and labeling door glass.

BrierS · #2 11-16-2005, 08:54 PM

Tempered glass scratches very easily. It will not take any polishing abuse as you used with SSB or DSB annealed. In most states it is mandatory that either laminated or tempered be used in doors. The insulated glass company I work for will not build an IG unit for a client w/o one or the other. I would be highly skeptical of using an abrasive, though I work in the office, not in the production area. I would be glad to check with the owner tomorrow and post again with what she thinks can be done. As to the logos, I order glass with and w/o logos for various clients. From what I understand, there are some projects that it is required. Typically, the installer fixes the units so the small logo is in the least obtrusive spot possible. In the case of those pictured, that would not be possible. As a residential use, unless the building code said otherwise, it probably should have been specified as "No Logo". I will tell you that it would be completely unwise to not use safety glass. The impact required to break that glass to the point it breaks would leave such small pieces you would need sustain major cuts as suggested. Those would result from non-saftey SSB or DSB. The lines you are talking about are probably striations found in many types of specialty glass. Historic, Glacier glass, etc. Possibly imported from Germany, cut to size and then tempered since you can not cut it once tempered.

BrierS · #3 11-16-2005, 09:05 PM

Your suggested "scratch remover" is one of the products approved for tempered glass. I stand corrected. The question I'll try to get an answer to is removal of the logo.
Sorry for the earlier long post when you had part of your answer already.

BrierS · #4 11-16-2005, 09:25 PM

The logos are typically etched and should not come out with scratch remover. In the states we sell to, typically a contractor can get the codes relaxed enough on residential use that a certificate of tempering will suffice. Of course that may not be possible in CA. My employer seemed to think the chances are near nil on removing the logos. She said that is one reason our clients use our company since they can get certifications. If you do decide to try removal, please post so I will learn from your experience.
Steve

dkveuro · #5 11-16-2005, 09:46 PM

A long long time ago..before getting involved with auto's on a regular basis, I worked just out of school with a chippy who had his own shop.
When asked to make multi-pane doors we would use a single large pane of glass samwiched inside/between the panels....it looked like muti-glass panels but it wa just one window glass........

Just an FYI.

PS....Isn't one door's glass is in backwards in the top picture, or is the ripple effect on both sides of each pane, unlike the logo?.

.

BrierS · #6 11-16-2005, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

A long long time ago..before getting involved with auto's on a regular basis, I worked just out of school with a chippy who had his own shop.
When asked to make multi-pane doors we would use a single large pane of glass samwiched inside/between the panels....it looked like muti-glass panels but it wa just one window glass........

Just an FYI.

PS....Isn't one door's glass is in backwards in the top picture, or is the ripple effect on both sides of each pane, unlike the logo?.
.

False lights (one piece made to look like individuval lights) are still used today though typically in lower cost projects. Individual lights are preferred. If a stone is cast from a nearby stringtrimmer a single unit replacement would be better than a piece of tempered of the full size.

As to the "ripple effect" various types of glass range from both sides being randomly similar in texture to one side having much more physical character. The part of your observation that interests me is the etched logos. Are they all on the inside???

BrierS · #7 11-16-2005, 10:04 PM

http://www.gtglass.com/glass_polishing.html

cmac2012 · #8 11-17-2005, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrierS

False lights (one piece made to look like individuval lights) are still used today though typically in lower cost projects. Individual lights are preferred. If a stone is cast from a nearby stringtrimmer a single unit replacement would be better than a piece of tempered of the full size.

As to the "ripple effect" various types of glass range from both sides being randomly similar in texture to one side having much more physical character. The part of your observation that interests me is the etched logos. Are they all on the inside???

Yeah, that makes sense, about just replacing one pane instead of the whole thing. On the right door, the etched logo is on the outside, on the left, he inside. I guess they were trying to do a mirror image, so it looked balanced. Oh boy. Big loud logo, but at least it's arranged symmetrically.

Thanks for the input, I didn't know if anyone was going to have a response. I'm afraid your boss might be right as far as the difficulty or impossibility of buffing these things off. They don't look that deep through a magnifying glass, so maybe.

The glass I buffed the scratches out of was double thickness with a beveled edge. Don't know if it was tempered, but then some of it was in doors, so at least that must have been. Some of the scratches were fairly deep and they came out. I made the mistake early on of using the edge of a buffing wheel in one place for too long and I ground a small lens into the pane. You could see light pucker through it. It was in an inconspicuous place, so we let it slide, and I got a big, hard felt wheel, with a wide, flat nose. I could press it down so that the drill chuck was perpindicular to the work and the flat part was in uniform contact. I'd work it around to avoid dishing.

One site I found has two grits of the cerium oxide -- a fast cut and a final polish. Might try that, if the owner springs for the supplies. $25 each for a small amount of the powder.

cmac2012 · #9 11-17-2005, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

A long long time ago..before getting involved with auto's on a regular basis, I worked just out of school with a chippy who had his own shop.
When asked to make multi-pane doors we would use a single large pane of glass samwiched inside/between the panels....it looked like muti-glass panels but it wa just one window glass........

Just an FYI.

PS....Isn't one door's glass is in backwards in the top picture, or is the ripple effect on both sides of each pane, unlike the logo?.

Best I can tell, the rippled effect is more prominent on one side though it seems like you can feel it on each side. They did reverse the panes, from one side to the other, so the logos would look symmetrical.

God, they're ugly. They catch the light at certain times of the day and just jump out. If I can fix this, my client will shower me with rose petals.

notlostmaybe · #10 11-17-2005, 11:58 AM

three experimental ways:
1. fill the etching with clear epoxy. rock chip holes in windshields are invisibly
filled with epoxy. maybe 'wavy' finish
2. artistically re-etch the ugly etchings.
3. hide them behind a coloured film or wood/stone/metal piece.

or

once they are inspected, remove the window jams, replace windows and
replace jams with new matching prefinished molding.

don

cmac2012 · #11 11-17-2005, 12:46 PM

I tried some reg'lar old epoxy, didn't have much of an effect. In high school physics, our teacher taught us about the angle of refraction of light in a liquid, and how different liquids have different angles. He had a vial of oil that had the same angle of refraction as glass (essentially a very slow moving liquid). The vial had a little glass post on the lid, like an older style dropper. The glass would disappear completely in the oil.

So, I'm thinking there might be an epoxy that has the correct angle of refraction so that the etching disappears. Heard of such a thing? I've heard of the quicko, cheapo windshield repair. Is that the same thing?

I've considered replacing the glass. I'm not sure if the guy will spring for the cost, but the way he's *****ing, he might, if nothing else works.

boneheaddoctor · #12 11-17-2005, 04:12 PM

No comments becasue its out of my area of experience but I have wondered about this for a while and find it interesting.

GottaDiesel · #13 11-17-2005, 04:49 PM

Try contacting a historic restoration organization and give them some song and dance about some old doors that were re-done with these panes... find out if they have any ideas.

Hey, it can't hurt.

Good Luck,

Pete