November 8, 1954 President Eisenhower:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionares and and occasional politici\an or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Lohd have mehcy, we could us a man like Ike right about now. Didn't see eye to eye with all of his stuff but oh well.

Eerily prophetic words. Ditto for his military-industrial complex remarks.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Kerry,
Do you really think its fair to quote a man 50 years after he spoke that, and then apply those words to to today's situation.
Its a different world than Ike could have ever imagined. Government spending in all areas is so many times more than anything he could have thought possible.
I could quote democrats from the same time frame that would sound like right wing fanatics in today's world. JFK's remarks on tax cuts would make him unwelcome in today's democrat party convention--he probably wouldn't even be allowed to address the convention.
Ike's warning of the military-industrial complex, were prophetic, indeed. The fears of the cold war era allowed the military-Industrial complex to exploit that fear. Well, we "won" the cold war. But at what cost? We bankrupted the Soviets, how far behind are we?

Shoot this is a big step forward for Kerry. Normally he quotes Aristotle.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Let's have some quotes from some 50's Dimmercrats on, for example, race relations.

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Palangi

2004 C240 Wagon 203.261 Baby Benz
2008 ML320 CDI Highway Cruiser
2006 Toyota Prius, Saving the Planet @ 48 mpg
2000 F-150, Destroying the Planet @ 20 mpg



TRUMP .......... WHITEHOUSE
HILLARY .........JAILHOUSE
BERNIE .......... NUTHOUSE
0BAMA .......... OUTHOUSE

Wird.


Kerry, If those programs are so integrally significant in the fiber of our society, why weren't they initiated at the inception of this nation? or were the founders too short sighted......again.

Because the original system was designed to help the propertied classes and not the laboring classes.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Although it sounds very UN PC, there is some merit in such a system. People who are not property owners have less invested in the economic situation than those who do not. Poperty owners are usually a minority-wtih less votesd than the non property owners. Politicians pander to the mass of voters, so what we end up with is a system biased against the property owners.
Is such a system better than one which favors the property owners?

The work of the founders was significant and profound. Nonetheless, there is only so much you can do in laying out a blueprint for a society. Many, many changes have gone down that the founders could have in no way anticipated.

Then there's the fact that most things work out quite differently in reality than in theory. That their blueprint has endured so well in 200+ years remarkable. Doesn't mean that adjustment and fine-tuning aren't continually needed.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I believe what you actually mean is "contemporaneous Republicans." Unless you're channeling Eisenhower or suggesting that Eisenhower was as gifted with telepathy and precognition as at least one Forum member.

Bot

Someday the scales shall fall from your eyes and you, too, will be able to discern such things as, "Who do we want to be the leader of our group," or "Should I give my blessing for my daughter's engagement to this guy who's holding his Johnson in his hand while hitting on my niece?"

You gonna just read an application in cases like these?

Botsenwaffle, for an educated guy, you got a lot to learn.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Huh?

B

Oh, come on dude. Think for a minute.

It's very simple. People want stuff. Some people, many people, will lie to get it. It's your job to not get taken in by a lie. I don't claim to be able to hear people's thoughts. Just to feel what my gut is saying.

Say you're in the jungle with some sort of crew, and all the nominal leaders are killed. Who gets the nod to be the new leader? How do you make the decision? Does one guy seem to have more experience and cahonnes than the others? Do you come to this opinion via telepathy or just by listening to your gut?

If an ********* is scoring points with your teenage daughter and it's clear to you that she's being way too naive and trusting and is available to be used by some shyster, are you going to intervene? Or are you going to be clueless, like too many people, and not even notice what's going on?

All of this attempting to pile crap on me cause I get a feeling if I trust someone or not based on the flimsy evidence of listening to them speak is started to sound like the flailing of someone who is pissed about losing an argument. I know you're keen on the scientific process, as am I. Some things are destined to remain mysteries, outside of a strict understanding through science.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Do you make all your judgemnts based on this sort of subjective "feeling"?
Perhaps to be atuned to what you call "your gut", and then using that to alert you to other objective factors to be observed and analyzed is useful. But you sound as if your entire process if all emotion. Say it isn't so.