China, we all know would win in a war against us without even trying. Russia, who for too long we have laughed at is... well... read this: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17729609%255E36375,00.html

And what are we doing with our resources? Shipping them to Iraq and Afganistan by the $Billion$, as our people get fatter, dumber, and more complacant with the powers that people. Supporting Middle East "countries" that don't let people vote yet claim to be a "democracy" http://www.ipc.gov.ps/ipc_new/english/details.asp?name=12821 (After you read this article, explain why we STILL send them Billions?)


Thanks to who? The Neo-cons and the Red States!! But, hey, which states are the red and which are the blue based on this study?

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

Have fun with this one.

China? Hell, OBL & Co have sent us packing from Somalia with a rag tag force of a few men and RPGs and AKs. The problem is not waging the war. The problem is not even resources which we have plenty. The problem is the will to kill. We don't have that anymore. Look what Uncle Ho Chi Mihn did to us in Nam

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

uh-oh.

B

Russia is broke, and besides we had the upper hand even at the hight of the cold war.

China well China would never go to war with us becuase it would be stupid and pointles for both countries. We make to much money off eachother.

However our Navy would have little trouble in controlling the seas, the air would be ours as well. Ground is another story, our army is pretty combat hardened at this point but the Chiness would have greater numbers. I would imagin human wave attacks would be used. With enough surpressing fire those can be driven back. If you look at the Korean war that is pretty much what a war with China will look like. Except we will have better equipment this time around. Support of the ground troops by A10's with anti personal munitions will hinder any human wave tactics they plan on using.

However China will be a very tough nut to crack and judging by how the media reacts to every death in Iraq I don't know if the American people have the constitution for a real war. I wonder if CNN will run a six digit KIA count 24/7 or something stupid like that. "this morning the Chiness launched a large counter offensive, our forces lost 10 miles of ground but with heavy fighting took it back. Kia 20k wounded 60k."

Either way the butchers bill will be high, so war should be avoided.

Again with Russia who gives a crap another cold war would be nice. A bi or tri polor world is nice and stable compared to this crap we are dealing with now. Plus their is good money in building weapons.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Bingo. That is what I just said above. We don't have the stones for that anymore.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Nope we feel to comfortable and safe in our suburban lives.

Somalia is a good example of this, our forces were restricted and didn't have the needed gear. We should have had tanks period. If Abrams were in there from the start I suspect it would have turned out differently.

I don't think guys with rpg's in the back of a Toyota pick up are going to attack a tank. Besides if they do "heat up", bang...

But that would look bad on CNN and the BBC having American tanks blowing up pick up trucks, the liberals would feel bad and go nuts ect.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Really? Last I checked we went to them to get people back and forth in space after *our* shuttle couldn't do the job. They have more natural resources than we do as well. What is your source that they are broke?

The only thing we have over them in reality is food. We *do* still feed the world. But other than that...

Beyond the nuclear aspect, (sorry, that's new-cue-lar) China is incapable of carrying a war to the US. The old "Three B's" would stop `em; Beans, Bandaids and Bullets - better known as logistics. So, no, we don't all know that China would win a war against us - I don't know that at all. It's my opinion that the government of China decided long ago that they (the Chinese) could not defeat us militarily, so they've been setting us up for many years to crush us economically. They're well on their way.

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"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a rock."

China is inter-dependent on us, but wishes to control our economy. They have major supply dominance and recently made a huge purchase of T bills. Capitalism is permeating their culture faster than the Bird Flu. They can't grow with us competing and dominating oil contracts. Would they launch an attack because of this, no. China's manpower issues would be quickly addressed with tactical field nukes. We wouldn't care because we would not occupy them, EVER.
The Cold War is not over. It has just shifted dimensions. The Russians are supplying Iran and Syria with forbidden technology. They are sore losers and are having issues with Chechen AQ forces that are embarrassing at best. Putin will have to choose their path after the U.S. neutralizes the Iranian WMD threat in the coming months. The liberal whiners can relax. It is not going to be an occupation; more like a hobbling and taking away dangerous toys from a bad baby. Remember Noriega. Just $.02.

P.S. Somalia is a result of faulty leadership. Christopher would not allow AC-130 operations, we were under U.N. command, the spineless Commander in Chief cut and ran when Durant's pictures got shown on CNN. Aidid contracted Afghan Mujahideen who had the modified side exhaust RPG's with timed rounds that perfected taking out helis against the Russians. Too bad Clinton didn't see that allowing Bin laden to live after the Sudanese gov't's offer would lead to American civilian casualties. However, foreign affairs were always a weak point. Domestic affairs weren't much better considering his taste in mistresses.

When did we all agree that China would beat us in a war? How?

B

Exploding plastic coat-hangers.

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-Marty

1986 300E 220,000 miles+ transmission impossible
(Now waiting under a bridge in order to become one)

Reading your M103 duty cycle:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=831799&postcount=13
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=831807&postcount=14

I had a thread some time ago about how China and Japan hold a massive chunk of our debt and if say China decided to dump its US dollars it would probably collapse the US economy and lead to another great depression. China's economy is the fastest growing in the world and it's projected to surpass the size of the US economy in the next decade or two, and in the process become an even larger resource consumer and CO2 emitter than the US is right now.

Militarily, the US is more powerful, but only because it spends way more on defense than any other country. With a bad economy you can't spend on the military as much. China's defense budget seems to be ever rising and with an increasingly stronger economy, I wouldn't be surprised to see it become the next great superpower, especially if it continues having Russia as an ally, but who knows, maybe there will be a 3-way cold war in the future.

Anyway, spending on Iraq is not helping the US in any way when it comes to competing with China and Russia.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Hmm really, you need to check again. During the cold war we actually had them surrounded with bases and missle sites. Granted both of us still have enough nuke's to destroy the world several times.

Russia has the ecnomy of a third world country with the mentality of a first. Moscow can say whatever they want but the further you get away from Moscow the more the country is run by organized crime and local millitary units.

Currantly they don't sell much oil because it is to expensice to extract at currant prices.

If Russia wants to build a modern 21st army and air force they have a long way to go. Maybe in 20-50 years if they really put a lot of effort into it.

You guys worry to much, I sleep pretty well at night knowing we have lots of boomers around the globe hidden. Our Navy is the best period, Chiness subs are diesel electric junk, and their nuke subs are old Russian crap. Those things make tons of noise.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I sleep even better because my head is not buried in the sand.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

You said it best!