Want to perpetuate the liberal agenda? Take a page from the Roman Catholic Chruch.

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The Return of Patriarchy
By Phillip Longman
Page 1 of 4

March/April 2006

Across the globe, people are choosing to have fewer children or none at all. Governments are desperate to halt the trend, but their influence seems to stop at the bedroom door. Are some societies destined to become extinct? Hardly. It’s more likely that conservatives will inherit the Earth. Like it or not, a growing proportion of the next generation will be born into families who believe that father knows best.

The Geopolitics of Sexual Frustration Asia has too many boys. They can’t find wives, but they just might find extreme nationalism instead. It’s a dangerous imbalance for a region already on edge.
read more...

“If we could survive without a wife, citizens of Rome, all of us would do without that nuisance.” So proclaimed the Roman general, statesman, and censor Quintus Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus, in 131 B.C. Still, he went on to plead, falling birthrates required that Roman men fulfill their duty to reproduce, no matter how irritating Roman women might have become. “Since nature has so decreed that we cannot manage comfortably with them, nor live in any way without them, we must plan for our lasting preservation rather than for our temporary pleasure.”

With the number of human beings having increased more than six-fold in the past 200 years, the modern mind simply assumes that men and women, no matter how estranged, will always breed enough children to grow the population—at least until plague or starvation sets in. It is an assumption that not only conforms to our long experience of a world growing ever more crowded, but which also enjoys the endorsement of such influential thinkers as Thomas Malthus and his many modern acolytes.

Yet, for more than a generation now, well-fed, healthy, peaceful populations around the world have been producing too few children to avoid population decline. That is true even though dramatic improvements in infant and child mortality mean that far fewer children are needed today (only about 2.1 per woman in modern societies) to avoid population loss. Birthrates are falling far below replacement levels in one country after the next—from China, Japan, Singapore, and South Korea, to Canada, the Caribbean, all of Europe, Russia, and even parts of the Middle East.

Fearful of a future in which the elderly outnumber the young, many governments are doing whatever they can to encourage people to have children. Singapore has sponsored “speed dating” events, in hopes of bringing busy professionals together to marry and procreate. France offers generous tax incentives for those willing to start a family. In Sweden, the state finances day care to ease the tension between work and family life. Yet, though such explicitly pronatal policies may encourage people to have children at a younger age, there is little evidence they cause people to have more children than they otherwise would. As governments going as far back as imperial Rome have discovered, when cultural and economic conditions discourage parenthood, not even a dictator can force people to go forth and multiply.


Throughout the broad sweep of human history, there are many examples of people, or classes of people, who chose to avoid the costs of parenthood. Indeed, falling fertility is a recurring tendency of human civilization. Why then did humans not become extinct long ago? The short answer is patriarchy.

Patriarchy does not simply mean that men rule. Indeed, it is a particular value system that not only requires men to marry but to marry a woman of proper station. It competes with many other male visions of the good life, and for that reason alone is prone to come in cycles. Yet before it degenerates, it is a cultural regime that serves to keep birthrates high among the affluent, while also maximizing parents’ investments in their children. No advanced civilization has yet learned how to endure without it.

Through a process of cultural evolution, societies that adopted this particular social system—which involves far more than simple male domination—maximized their population and therefore their power, whereas those that didn’t were either overrun or absorbed. This cycle in human history may be obnoxious to the enlightened, but it is set to make a comeback.


The Conservative Baby Boom

The historical relation between patriarchy, population, and power has deep implications for our own time. As the United States is discovering today in Iraq, population is still power. Smart bombs, laser-guided missiles, and unmanned drones may vastly extend the violent reach of a hegemonic power. But ultimately, it is often the number of boots on the ground that changes history. Even with a fertility rate near replacement level, the United States lacks the amount of people necessary to sustain an imperial role in the world, just as Britain lost its ability to do so after its birthrates collapsed in the early 20th century. For countries such as China, Germany, Italy, Japan, and Spain, in which one-child families are now the norm, the quality of human capital may be high, but it has literally become too rare to put at risk.

Falling fertility is also responsible for many financial and economic problems that dominate today’s headlines. The long-term financing of social security schemes, private pension plans, and healthcare systems has little to do with people living longer. Gains in life expectancy at older ages have actually been quite modest, and the rate of improvement in the United States has diminished for each of the last three decades. Instead, the falling ratio of workers to retirees is overwhelmingly caused by workers who were never born. As governments raise taxes on a dwindling working-age population to cover the growing burdens of supporting the elderly, young couples may conclude they are even less able to afford children than their parents were, thereby setting off a new cycle of population aging and decline.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3376&print=1.html

ideological domination by attrition.

What does this article have to do with Catholicism?

Thanks
David

__________________
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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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Roman Catholicism encourages families. This has the effect of increasing the number of potential Roman Catholics since most children assimilate their parents' social interests.

Folks in the upper incomes, through history, have reporduced at a lower rate than lower income. Etc.

In evolution the only measure of success is successful reproduction.

Bot

Are evolutionary criteria remotely relevant to the issue? Evolutionary success is applied to species and not to cultures, governments or social classes. So unless, there's some evidence that Catholics, Mormons, the poor etc, are about to deviate into another species that will be more successful than homo sapiens, it seems other criteria must apply.

__________________
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1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
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....Thus the drive to Sunday afternoon naps

Perhaps, but I think with homo sapiens the culture is inextricably part of it. We not only pass on our genetic mateial but our idological perceptions. In this sense we are different from other species.

Ideologocal perceptions govern the success of one family line over another generally, all other things being equal. What do you think?

Natural selection acts on the individual. Individual choice and happenstance affect the persistence of this or that set of an individual's genes down through the generations...or not. If we make a conscious chocie to have fewer offspring, for whatever reason while our neighbor cchooses to have more offspring, his gene frequency through subsequent generations will occur at a greater frequency, all things being equal. Of course all things are not equal. Stochasticity plays a large role but it can sometimes be overcome with enough reproduction.

There is an argument concerning group selection that ebbs and flows in popularity mainly because there are no provable instances in nature. The closest that has been demonstrated is kin selection, a subset of group selection.

So the argument favoring 'conservatism' if based on group selection theory is a theory based on multiple, unproven assumptions.

But it's fun to speculate.

B

The closest example I know of is my 30 yr old nephew and his wife who have 8 kids (last time I checked it was over a yr ago so it could be 9 by now). They seem to lack all ideology and simply f**k till they drop.

My Biology professor friend is constantly trying to get her liberal students to reproduce, without much effect. (Despite the fact that she only has one child herself).
The rich can afford to have as many kids as they want. The thoughtless poor see no improving future for themselves so bother planning it. The economically rational middle class plan their lives and minimize children due to the costs of education.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

There's a balance between conservatism and liberalism, if by those terms we mean, holding on to the proven vs trying something new.

Failure to innovate often leads to decrepitude while too much innovation leads to lethal risk. The balance in nature is enforce by the environment. A very stable environment rewards conservatism, the ultimate in conservatism is some form of apomixis--reproduction without out-crossing. This ensures that the genome successful in the current environment persists into the next. In an unchanging environment there is no need to innovate so out-crossing is actually detrimental.

But let the environment change and all of those clonally reproduced offspring maybe unable to adapt and so the die while those that out-cross and maintain a high genetic diversity will have offspring that are more likely to survive, though some will likely not survive. Unless the environment stabilizes again.

And so the cycle between liberals who innovate and out-cross and conservatives who hold onto the characteristics that have consistently guaranteed success.

As a sentient being, the trick is to figure-out which environment we are in.

Somewhere down in this article is a discussion concerning the role of men in modern society's declining fecundity.

Bot

Italian women shun 'mamma' role
EU states are trying to understand why the birth rate is falling - and if anything can be done to stem the decline. All this week, the BBC News website is asking women in various countries about how they feel about being asked to have more babies, and how easy or difficult they find combining motherhood and work.
Here, the BBC's Rome correspondent Christian Fraser asks why Italy - a predominantly Roman Catholic country that has always loved children - has stopped having them.


The Italian population is getting smaller and it is also getting older. The fertility rate - at 1.33 children per woman - is one of the lowest in the Western world. And more than one in five of the population in Italy is now over 65.


Laura Callura became a mother at 36, which she says is not unusual in Italy
On current estimates there will be 14 million fewer Italians by the year 2050.

The question is why? The answer is that many single women now work hard to avoid the responsibilities of childcare. An increasing proportion of educated women no longer want to be just mothers and wives.

Ten years ago women represented only 22% of the work force here - now they are 47%.

But there is another reason most young families decide against having children - they can't afford it.

The country spends just 3.8% of its GDP on child-related social spending compared with an EU average of around 8%.

Older mothers

Laura Callura, 38, who lives in Rome says she is typical of many Italian women.

"I became a mother at 36 and that's not unusual here," she says. "A lot of my friends had their first child between the ages of 33 and 38.


BIRTH RATES

In Europe 2.1 children per woman is considered to be the population replacement level. These are national averages
Ireland: 1.99
France: 1.90
Norway: 1.81
Sweden 1.75
UK: 1.74
Netherlands: 1.73
Germany: 1.37
Italy: 1.33
Spain: 1.32
Greece: 1.29
Source: Eurostat - 2004 figures

At-a-glance: National policies
"Here in Italy we start life much later than people in northern Europe. University courses take longer to finish and it's harder for young people to get into the job market.

"I started my first job when I was 25 - but that is quite unusual. Most Italians don't start their career until their late 20s."

Statistics show that an increasing number of 30-year-old Italians still live with their parents, unable to afford first-time housing.

"I lived with my parents until I was 29," says Laura. Most of my friends stayed with their parents until they were married. "It is expensive to rent property particularly in the cities and most young people can't afford it. If you can't afford to live, you are not even thinking about children."

Italy still trails behind most of Europe in providing affordable child care and family benefits. Maternity pay isn't bad - Laura had five months on full pay with her first child and six months on reduced pay.

Baby bonus

Compared with the US, where her husband comes from, she thinks that is fairly generous.

"We get tax break as well," she says "but there is no family allowance to speak of. Then, there are few nurseries. I wouldn't know how you get one of the few places in a public nursery - it is impossible. I would think you would have to pull some strings."


I have a friend who is married to someone who didn't help enough around the house - she didn't cave in to having a second child until he promised to do more
Laura Callura
As for the private nurseries, they are far too expensive. "I am lucky because I have my parents, but without them it would be much, much harder to manage."

Laura, who is now expecting her second child has a full-time contract. She says most people would not consider having two children unless they were in a stable "lifetime contract".

And therein lies one of the other major problems. There is very little flexibility in the labour market here in Italy. Contracts are "for life", which explains why there is very little part-time work for those outside the system.

"I had considered asking my employer for more flexible hours," she says, "but I wasn't hopeful. I have considered stopping but financially that is a risk. You never know what sort of pressures you are going to face with a second child."

Last year, the government introduced a "baby bonus" to try to encourage families to have more children.

Since then, more than 600,000 mothers have each received 1,000 euros from the government towards the cost of their new-born babies.

It's too early to say whether this new bonus is likely to have any dramatic effect on the birth rate here but there are many who think the money would be better targeted through the benefits system.

Men's role

Letizia Mencarini, a professor of demography at the University of Florence interviewed more than 3,000 mothers from five different cities across Italy to find out what would persuade them to have more children.

She found the more involved the father became in household chores, the more likely his wife was to want a second baby.


Last year, a "baby bonus" was introduced to try to encourage families to have more children

"A lot of Italian men do nothing around the house," she says. "I would say career women in Italy work harder than any other in Europe when you factor in childcare and household duties.

"There is sufficient evidence to show that many women here are frightened of taking on the added work and responsibility that comes with a second child."

Laura agrees: "I have a friend who is married to someone who didn't help enough around the house. She didn't cave in to having a second child until he promised - on his mother's head - that he would do more."

Professor Mencarini says children are still at the centre of family life in Italy but many mothers said they had postponed the decision - sometimes until it was too late - because they were frightened of the financial implications.

"It's a complex problem as you have seen," she says. "There is almost a sense of pessimism that has grown in this country when it comes to having children.

"If the government really wants to encourage a positive environment for bringing up children then they have to put the provisions in place. That means far more flexible work, nurseries, children's services, and the sort of things that help young families to cope.

Somewhere down in this article is a discussion concerning the role of men in modern society's declining fecundity.

Bot

Italian women shun 'mamma' role
EU states are trying to understand why the birth rate is falling - and if anything can be done to stem the decline. All this week, the BBC News website is asking women in various countries about how they feel about being asked to have more babies, and how easy or difficult they find combining motherhood and work.
Here, the BBC's Rome correspondent Christian Fraser asks why Italy - a predominantly Roman Catholic country that has always loved children - has stopped having them.


The Italian population is getting smaller and it is also getting older. The fertility rate - at 1.33 children per woman - is one of the lowest in the Western world. And more than one in five of the population in Italy is now over 65.


Laura Callura became a mother at 36, which she says is not unusual in Italy
On current estimates there will be 14 million fewer Italians by the year 2050.

The question is why? The answer is that many single women now work hard to avoid the responsibilities of childcare. An increasing proportion of educated women no longer want to be just mothers and wives.

Ten years ago women represented only 22% of the work force here - now they are 47%.

But there is another reason most young families decide against having children - they can't afford it.

The country spends just 3.8% of its GDP on child-related social spending compared with an EU average of around 8%.

Older mothers

Laura Callura, 38, who lives in Rome says she is typical of many Italian women.

"I became a mother at 36 and that's not unusual here," she says. "A lot of my friends had their first child between the ages of 33 and 38.


BIRTH RATES

In Europe 2.1 children per woman is considered to be the population replacement level. These are national averages
Ireland: 1.99
France: 1.90
Norway: 1.81
Sweden 1.75
UK: 1.74
Netherlands: 1.73
Germany: 1.37
Italy: 1.33
Spain: 1.32
Greece: 1.29
Source: Eurostat - 2004 figures

At-a-glance: National policies
"Here in Italy we start life much later than people in northern Europe. University courses take longer to finish and it's harder for young people to get into the job market.

"I started my first job when I was 25 - but that is quite unusual. Most Italians don't start their career until their late 20s."

Statistics show that an increasing number of 30-year-old Italians still live with their parents, unable to afford first-time housing.

"I lived with my parents until I was 29," says Laura. Most of my friends stayed with their parents until they were married. "It is expensive to rent property particularly in the cities and most young people can't afford it. If you can't afford to live, you are not even thinking about children."

Italy still trails behind most of Europe in providing affordable child care and family benefits. Maternity pay isn't bad - Laura had five months on full pay with her first child and six months on reduced pay.

Baby bonus

Compared with the US, where her husband comes from, she thinks that is fairly generous.

"We get tax break as well," she says "but there is no family allowance to speak of. Then, there are few nurseries. I wouldn't know how you get one of the few places in a public nursery - it is impossible. I would think you would have to pull some strings."


I have a friend who is married to someone who didn't help enough around the house - she didn't cave in to having a second child until he promised to do more
Laura Callura
As for the private nurseries, they are far too expensive. "I am lucky because I have my parents, but without them it would be much, much harder to manage."

Laura, who is now expecting her second child has a full-time contract. She says most people would not consider having two children unless they were in a stable "lifetime contract".

And therein lies one of the other major problems. There is very little flexibility in the labour market here in Italy. Contracts are "for life", which explains why there is very little part-time work for those outside the system.

"I had considered asking my employer for more flexible hours," she says, "but I wasn't hopeful. I have considered stopping but financially that is a risk. You never know what sort of pressures you are going to face with a second child."

Last year, the government introduced a "baby bonus" to try to encourage families to have more children.

Since then, more than 600,000 mothers have each received 1,000 euros from the government towards the cost of their new-born babies.

It's too early to say whether this new bonus is likely to have any dramatic effect on the birth rate here but there are many who think the money would be better targeted through the benefits system.

Men's role

Letizia Mencarini, a professor of demography at the University of Florence interviewed more than 3,000 mothers from five different cities across Italy to find out what would persuade them to have more children.

She found the more involved the father became in household chores, the more likely his wife was to want a second baby.


Last year, a "baby bonus" was introduced to try to encourage families to have more children

"A lot of Italian men do nothing around the house," she says. "I would say career women in Italy work harder than any other in Europe when you factor in childcare and household duties.

"There is sufficient evidence to show that many women here are frightened of taking on the added work and responsibility that comes with a second child."

Laura agrees: "I have a friend who is married to someone who didn't help enough around the house. She didn't cave in to having a second child until he promised - on his mother's head - that he would do more."

Professor Mencarini says children are still at the centre of family life in Italy but many mothers said they had postponed the decision - sometimes until it was too late - because they were frightened of the financial implications.

"It's a complex problem as you have seen," she says. "There is almost a sense of pessimism that has grown in this country when it comes to having children.

"If the government really wants to encourage a positive environment for bringing up children then they have to put the provisions in place. That means far more flexible work, nurseries, children's services, and the sort of things that help young families to cope.

Interesting in the above post the Italians think the way to encourage greater fecundity depends on the government providing more services.

Meanwhile the women in the story say that the primary impediment to a second child is not government programs but for that lazy as-slug of a husband to get off the sofa and do something useful.

It looks to me like the husband plays a pretty important role in family size and not just from copulation: by providing the mother with a good quality environment with lots of paternal involvement in every aspect of the household.

Bot

This is patently false. Life expectancy has increased steadily.

Frighteningly true.

__________________
DS
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www.Newgateschool.org - check it out.
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Las Vegas NV

Speaking as a guy who has spent 5 years living amoung the Italians in italy and as someone who spends a lot of time there and here dealing with its people daily..Italian men tend to do things the way it was done here before the lesbian led womens liberation movement of the 60's polluted the minds of a lot of American women...as in the do the mens work and the women do the womans work. And while extremely outspoken (and by no means subserviant) Italian women do tend to enjoy their more feminine role than most American women do.

There are some other things at play here also in that most Italian children (both genders) don't leave home until they get married and either rent or buy a place which means the mooch off mom and dad until they are 30 on the average. And they rarely get jobs right out of school, or those that do are in no huge rush to get married adn move out. I knew only one person who moved out on their own before they got married in the years I have been over there and visiting.

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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche