Finally some Common Sense

[450slcguy]

It's been ten years since Congress last voted to raise the minimum wage.

Here are some simple facts that are hard to ignore:

Someone working full-time for the $5.15 federal minimum wage makes just $10,700 a year. A single mom with two kids who works full-time for the minimum wage is about $6,000 below the poverty line.
The federal minimum wage has been stuck at the same rate since 1997. Since then, Republican leaders have raised the salaries of Senators seven times. Salaries of lawmakers have gone up by $31,600 -- almost three times the entire yearly income of someone on minimum wage. The real value of the minimum wage is more than $3.00 below what it was a generation ago. The minimum wage is the lowest it has been in over 50 years relative to the average wage.
Raising the minimum wage to $7.25 an hour adds up to more than one year of groceries, over 9 months of rent, a year and a half of heat and electricity, or full tuition for a community college degree.
The world's richest and most powerful country must do better. Democrats are leading the way on making this simple, humane change that will affect millions of Americans.

Governor Howard Dean, M.D.

[boneheaddoctor]

How much did the Dems raist it during the previous administrations 2 terns....the cost of living went up during that stretch of time also...

I am for a living wage however...but neither party can claim the moral high ground on that topic.

[450slcguy]

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

How much did the Dems raist it during the previous administrations 2 terns....the cost of living went up during that stretch of time also...

I am for a living wage however...but neither party can claim the moral high ground on that topic.

I'm curious to see if the current administration and leadership will support the wage increase considering the wealthy come first and "let the people eat cake" attitude.

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

I'm curious to see if the current administration and leadership will support the wage increase considering the wealthy come first and "let the people eat cake" attitude.

The Dems don't reallly want it either becasue too many of their people can pocket more money by paying lower wages adn not passing the savings off to anyone. Thats the lure of illegals being paid under the table. Min wage won't help that, only encourage more of it. Have an illegal round up and march them to the border like a cattle drive and then you will see people making a living wage.

[dannym]

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

The Dems don't reallly want it either becasue too many of their people can pocket more money by paying lower wages adn not passing the savings off to anyone. Thats the lure of illegals being paid under the table. Min wage won't help that, only encourage more of it. Have an illegal round up and march them to the border like a cattle drive and then you will see people making a living wage.

You got that right. And make no mistake about it. It's NOT about Mexicans doing the UNDESIRABLE jobs. They take jobs in every sector. Around here it's construction.
They had a raid and rounded up a bunch of illegals but they only did it because it was a "public project" and someone complained. If your a private contractor you can get away with anything.
Also when their deported they are back a month later.

They accept low pay and drive wages down for everybody.

Danny

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by dannym

You got that right. And make no mistake about it. It's NOT about Mexicans doing the UNDESIRABLE jobs. They take jobs in every sector. Around here it's construction.
They had a raid and rounded up a bunch of illegals but they only did it because it was a "public project" and someone complained. If your a private contractor you can get away with anything.
Also when their deported they are back a month later.

They accept low pay and drive wages down for everybody.

Danny

Around here to....you can't work construction if you don't speak spanish....and its NOT a tight job market thats causing it. THey rather pay half the fair wage in cash to illegals than a full fair wage to qualified Americans.

[420SEL]

Raising the minimum wage does not get anyone out of poverty or necessarily raise the standard of living of the population on average. I own a business that can profitably employ three people at a certain wage. Government imposes a new minimum wage above the wage I currently pay. My business is no longer profitable, so I either fire one person and pay the other two more, or I lose profits and pay myself less. This kind of thing does not create wealth, it is only a smoke screen produced by those who are incapable of increasing the wealth of a nation. A nation is better served by Government staying out of these things.

"the minimum wage is a violent imposition on the freedom of association that harms all of society in the long run. The US has been blessed by the fact that pressure to increase the minimum wage has been resisted at the federal level for many years. If we care about reducing unemployment and retaining the conditions for future prosperity, we had better not make the mistake of increasing it. If Congress had any economic sense, it would repeal all these laws forthwith." - Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr

See http://www.mises.org/story/1344 for more.

[450slcguy]

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Have an illegal round up and march them to the border like a cattle drive and then you will see people making a living wage.

Amen to that!! I have nothing against legal immigration. Not to be cruel , but illegals aliens should be thrown out on their ass along with their American born children. It's a mockery of our laws that this has been "allowed" to go on for so long. It has brought down the standard of living for the middle and lower income people, and it's overburdening our social assistance programs for needy Americans. Not to mention our schools, car insurance and emergency medical facillities. Alot of those illegals have no auto or health insurance and we American tax payers have to foot the bills. Enough is enough. Try entering Mexico or those S. American countries illegally as an American and see what happens to you.

[450slcguy]

Originally Posted by 420SEL

Raising the minimum wage does not get anyone out of poverty or necessarily raise the standard of living of the population on average. I own a business that can profitably employ three people at a certain wage. Government imposes a new minimum wage above the wage I currently pay. My business is no longer profitable, so I either fire one person and pay the other two more, or I lose profits and pay myself less. This kind of thing does not create wealth, it is only a smoke screen produced by those who are incapable of increasing the wealth of a nation. A nation is better served by Government staying out of these things.

"the minimum wage is a violent imposition on the freedom of association that harms all of society in the long run. The US has been blessed by the fact that pressure to increase the minimum wage has been resisted at the federal level for many years. If we care about reducing unemployment and retaining the conditions for future prosperity, we had better not make the mistake of increasing it. If Congress had any economic sense, it would repeal all these laws forthwith." - Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr

See http://www.mises.org/story/1344 for more.

What a bunch of bull! If your business can't afford to pay your employees a minimal sustainable wage for a weeks work, then get a job. Just as you expect to earn a sustainable income in your business at 2006 levels, then accordingly so should your employees. Why should American workers have to compete with 1990 wages and illegal aliens for poverty level wages? That's what this is really about anyway. Thats why the illegals are here, to put more money in the pockets of greedy employers. I'm not talking about paying them 30k a year, but enough so they can live slightly above the poverty level. Anyone who works a 40 hour week in this country should not have to work for sub-poverty level wages, by law. If so, they might as well collect welfare and contribute nothing to society and become a burden.

If it wasn't for the illegals being here, the minimum wage would have been raised far above from what it is now. But instead illegal immigrants have been used as a substitute to American workers to freeze wages at minimum levels. This partially enabled American manufacturing to compete with cheap foriegn labor imports. The whole process started in the mid 80's and was a very well conceived plot to cut costs and increase profits while keeping inflation low. It's all inter-related and was a brilliant idea, but sooner or later the American public will pay the price. We are no longer able to self sustain our economy while becoming increasingly dependent on foriegn goods/products. We are creating a large hole in the industrial might of this country, and it gets bigger every year.

I believe anyone who employs illegals should be heavily fined and whipped as they are a greedy traitor to their country and fellow countrymen.

[Botnst]

I wish they'd do away with the minimum wage and let the market find the value of unskilled, entry-level labor.

B

[boneheaddoctor]

Originally Posted by Botnst

I wish they'd do away with the minimum wage and let the market find the value of unskilled, entry-level labor.

B

Construction work is not mostly unskilled entry level labor...but try and find a job in it for the going rate ....or without being perfectly fluent in spanish...not around here you won't, they are all illegals..or a good part of them anyway. You would be hard pressed to find an english speaking guy in the bunch. And this is Washington DC remember, not the southwest.

[Hatterasguy]

I hate figures like that in the first post.

The only people that get minimum wage are kids just starting. The percentage of adults that earn min must be incredibly small.

Besides in CT at least the state has set the minimum at $7.40. So you would make $18,870 if you worked 50 hours a week and took one week off a year.

But anyone with the slightest bit of brain cells working gets $10 an hour. Using the same math thats $25,500 a year. Not enough to raise a family but enough for a single person to live off of.

Most people at least in my area with a touch of skill gets more. Your basic boat yard worker (unskilled) with only a highschool eduacation gets about $15 an hour. $38k a year, if the wife works as well you are up to almost $80k a year.

I say let the market set the rate.

[Botnst]

Originally Posted by Botnst

I wish they'd do away with the minimum wage and let the market find the value anybody.

B

Hope that change helps.

[dannym]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I hate figures like that in the first post.

The only people that get minimum wage are kids just starting. The percentage of adults that earn min must be incredibly small.

Besides in CT at least the state has set the minimum at $7.40. So you would make $18,870 if you worked 50 hours a week and took one week off a year.

But anyone with the slightest bit of brain cells working gets $10 an hour. Using the same math thats $25,500 a year. Not enough to raise a family but enough for a single person to live off of.

Most people at least in my area with a touch of skill gets more. Your basic boat yard worker (unskilled) with only a highschool eduacation gets about $15 an hour. $38k a year, if the wife works as well you are up to almost $80k a year.

I say let the market set the rate.

No way this is true. The Northwest is so much different from the whole south and even the rest of the United States.
Wages there are much higher. If people were left to decide what to pay we would be back to children working in sweatshops for $1.00 an hour.

People always forget.......we tried that already!..............It didn't work!

Danny

[420SEL]

Minimum wage laws do not raise wages. In fact, rising wages lift minimum wages. If you plot average wages on a chart with the minimum wage you will find that increases in the minimum wages always follow increases in the average wage with a considerable lag. This is one piece of legistlation that is pure politics.