At the risk of..
 

getting some feathers ruffled, I thought I'd ask for opinions on this topic:

Minutemen Installing Ariz. Border Fence:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060528/APA/605280540

I understand why, but isn't this like showing up to a forest fire with a glass of water?

thoughts?

If I needed to cross that fence, I'd bring a small pair of bolt cutters. Or, throw some blankets over it. Unless they decide to throw some voltage on there, it looks to be more of a ceremonial type of barrier.

I think the land owner will be breathing a slight sigh of relief, a family friend has a ranch on the border that used to be a family retreat but now it is too dangerous.

That's about the only thing that fence would protect: the bit of real estate just opposite it. Since it's not that long, they'd learn soon enough to just go down a ways and walk across. If that fence was 300 miles long, it'd be child's play to breech. ANY fence, unless they have lookouts every quarter mile or so, is going to be breeched, given the kind of motivation involved. These people are risking their lives in the desert heat and the Coyotes are making, for them, serious bank, they know how to use ladders, ropes, and even to insulate from electricity.

What fence like that has worked in history?

That's about the only thing that fence would protect: the bit of real estate just opposite it. Since it's not that long, they'd learn soon enough to just go down a ways and walk across. If that fence was 300 miles long, walking around it would be harder and it'd be child's play to breech. ANY fence, unless they have lookouts every quarter mile or so, is going to be breeched, given the kind of motivation involved. These people are risking their lives in the desert heat and the Coyotes are making, for them, serious bank, they know how to use ladders, ropes, and even to insulate from electricity.

What fence like that has worked in history?

The earliest fence that I recall in history was built under direction of Pericles to protect Athens and Piraeus from the Spartan alliance invasions during the Pelapennesian (sp?) wars. It was effective against the most advanced western army of the day. I think it finally failed through betrayal, but I'm not sure of that.

I'm not sure when China's Great Wall was built, but it was also an effective barrier for centuries.

Hadrian built an effective wall keeping the Scottish savages out of England.

The French built a Maginot Line" that the Germans defeated through superior tactics and determination.

Etc

Walls work if they are manned by a determined force. They fail through neglect.

Und who ar-r-r-r-e ya callin' a savage, lahd?

I always got the impression that Hadrian's wall was not that effective and you don't hear much about China's wall working, but I can see how, if properly manned, they couldn't hurt.

I read once that stone masons on the Great Wall were looking at a lifetime's worth of work and a few generations of their descendents were as well.

I agree with you if the goal is perfect interdiction.

What level of interdiction is sufficient? What level do we have now? I don't know, but I'll bet somebody has studied it.

Enforcing hiring laws would not be 100% effective either. What level is acceptable?

Guest worker programs may offer currently illegal workers an alternative acceptible to employers, guest workers, and citizens of the USA.

The combination of a strong guest worker program; a strong, but not perfect barrier combined with strong; but not perfect enforcement of hiring laws might be an effective way of reducing illegal entry to an acceptable level.

Bot

They do have lookouts -- they're called the Minutemen...

As usualy the great General George S. Patton nails it again.:cool: Although he was speaking of an attacking army. In such a case especialy with modern weapons fixed fortifications are pretty pointless. But against bare foot imigrants in a desert a wall can work well enough. Remember you don't need to stop 100% of the traffic, never will. But you certainly could stop 95%+ with a good wall.

Every quarter mile?