I might be building a deck for a woman, about 20' x 12'. I've seen pillow blocks do well but I've also seen them sink a bit. I don't want a call from her in a few years complaining that her deck is now horribly uneven.

Coincidentally, this month's Fine Homebuilding has an article about a more thorough foundation for a deck, involving sinking piers down a few feet and even doing it with a larger foot on the bottom, say 12" diameter and a smaller concrete post, maybe 6" diameter extending to the surface.

I'd rather use the pillow blocks -- there's not going to be a hot tub on this deck. One deck I did a few years ago was going to receive a hot tub so I poured a footing with a smaller square footing under where the tub was going to be.

Any thoughts?

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I would not use a pillow block -- but that depends on where you're located. Ice can really screw up a footing (or lack of).

I would tick with a traditional footing and concrete tube-fill. Figure your loads, etc. and then over-build a bit -- if you can. Nothing worse than seeing a deck jacked up by ice damage.

OTOH, if ice isn't a concern, then you have to deal with sinking, etc.

Good Luck,

Pete

Doesn't seem like you and she are considering pulling a building permit. To build anything without a permit, but especially a structural system, where a collapse could injure someone, is not a good idea.
regards,
Mark

Why pull a permit? You would only have to build to code and the added deck would be added to the property value thus increasing property taxes. It's much better to do things under the table, if it works for the Clintons it should work for Joann non-taxpayer.

Where did you guys read that he wasn't going to pull a permit?

The forum safety patrol strikes again. Thanks for keeping it real.

I was just espousing the benefits of not pulling a permit for everyone's general amusement. I wouldn't dare assume that anyone on this forum would do such a thing.

Perhaps I am confused also by what I read in the original post. So I ask the poster, even though it is not my business: are you planning to obtain a permit for the deck?
If you do, the building department, through either approval or rejection of your application, will answer your question about the foundation system for the deck.
regards,
Mark

That's one big woman!

Seriously though, in our county I'm pretty sure you're only allowed 100FT2 without a permit. You may not have to worry though since you're not building a covered structure.

I much preferred living in KY, where a permit consisted of the scrap of paper that you drew out your plans and measurements to take to the store and buy parts.

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Yeah, but she has a great personality.

It's a tough one. I dislike inspectors and permits for the most part, but w/o them, we'd be on a long slow slide to Shantytown, USA.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I don't know Berkley ( except by reputation), but I do soils and foundation engineering in MD, DE, PA and VA.
Frost is a real concern here, and the minimum detph from the ground surface to the bottom of the footing is 30". Obviously, your frost design depth will be a lot less. This information is easily available from the local Building Official--make an anonymous call.
How much is the permit fee? Is it worth NOT getting one? The other side of the issue is that while she may save a little money, and not have it show up immediately for tax purposes, is that the home insurer may decline any protection to the home owner if there is any claim.
There are any number of books on deck building that take you step-by-step thru the process of designing the footings. It isn't rocket science.
As far as Guard Rails go, according to the International Code, they are to be able to sustain a 200lb force at any point, in any direction. I've seen many that would not.
I can't imagine that the cost of the permit is greater than the benefit and protection it offers--especially since you will be liable if anyone gets hurt on a non=permited structure. Its HER money and YOUR liability--get the permit, and get the plans approved.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

What is a pillow block?

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...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

It's a quick, easy, and generally substandard way to put in a quickie foundation. They're generally shaped like a pyramid with the top lopped off. About 12 to 16" square at the base, maybe 8 to 10" tall. The square part at the top might be around 6" square. Sometimes, a square piece of 2x6 is recessed into the top. Made of concrete, of course.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

You don't have a downloadable copy of the International Property Maintenance Code you want to share, do you ?

Er, seriously.

No,

I only have the Internation Residential Code and the International Building Code, and they are both hard copies, sorry.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

I agree with you here for the most part. Even when I don't get a permit, I observe code pretty well. I've gone the anonymous call route before, that is a good idea. This deck will be one step's worth of heigth, about 7 or 8 inches above flat ground. Even with pillow blocks, I can't forsee any serious danger. I'm going to use treated 2x6s for the structure and face it w/ redwood on the side. She found some kind of 5/4 decking that she likes the sustainability of better -- sustainable as in eco-friendly. Growing market in green building.

I just did all the mortises and install on a $2,000 door a buddy of mine had made from 100 year old redwood. Apparently they used redwood for railroad ties years ago (!?!) and this was some stock that was too big to get out, or something like that. Absolutely gorgeous door, had some dark streaking from age -- and here's cmac attacking it with sharp tools (), my buddy wanted it up in time for the green building tour he was a featured part of. He's used a lot of salvaged wood, even the copper rain gutters are re-used, and he has a bongo solar hot water set-up. The place was hopping all day during the tour. If all goes well, folks going to be showering me and my pal with bushel baskets of money in exchange for our undenialbe grooviness.

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Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K