Hmm...

I will start by saying that I haven't done NEARLY enough homework on the subject to form any substantial opinions of my own....

But this guy does raise some very interesting and logical questions.

...And before any of you knee-jerkers get your panties in a wad... NO, I am NOT anti-Semitic in ANY way. So before you even start down that path... Shut up. I'm just curious about the subject, and nothing more....

Seems like there's a LOT of discrepancies in the "official" story. I'd like to know why.

Comments?....

Mike


_________________________________



March 21, 2005

My Holocaust Problems

by Giuseppe Furioso

GiuseppeFurioso@aol.com



The Holocaust consists of three basic elements: (1) Approximately six million
Jews were deliberately killed. (2) These killings were part of a state
sponsored program on the part of the Third Reich whose ultimate goal was the total
eradication of the Jewish people. (3) The bulk of these murders took place in
special death camps where the principal mechanism of execution was the
homicidal gas chamber that utilized Zyclon B, a commercial pesticide whose active
ingredient was hydrogen cyanide.


That the Third Reich possessed the technological and administrative means to
carry out such a vast amount of killing there is little doubt. The Soviet
Union with significantly inferior assets in these areas was able to kill far
greater numbers of human beings. Furthermore, the armies of the Third Reich
succeeded in killing at least ten million of its heavily armed military opponents in
the course of World War II. Hence the killing of six million unarmed civilians
should not have presented any unique problems to such an industrially
advanced and bureaucratically efficient state as Nazi Germany, on the contrary, it
would have been far easier.


My doubts about the Holocaust are not centered on whether it could have
happened but whether it did happen. In fact many of the doubts that I have are a
direct consequence of the fact that I have no doubt that it actually could have
happened...but certainly not in the ways that have been described thus far in
the ‘’official’’ literature.


It is part of the Western tradition in legal, scientific and intellectual
matters that those asserting something have the burden of proof and that those
who disagree are not required to provide evidence. This tradition however has
been turned on its head regarding the holocaust since the ‘’historical truth’’
of the holocaust has been posited in advance. Furthermore, even to express
doubts can result in criminal penalties in at least 11 so-called democratic
countries and the ruining of lives and careers in numerous others.


Listed below are some of the ‘’problems ‘’ I have with the Holocaust.
Should these be cleared up it would go a long way toward my accepting it …they are
in no particular order.



1) Why did Elie Wiesel and countless other Jews survive the Holocaust if it
was the intention of the Third Reich to eliminate every Jew they got there
hands on? Elie was a prisoner for several years; other Jews survived even longer.
Most of these ‘’survivors’’ were ordinary people who did not have any unique
expertise that the Germans could have exploited for their war effort. There
was no logical reason for them to be kept alive. The very existence of more
than a million survivors even today, some sixty years later, contradicts one of
the basic components of the holocaust i.e. that the Germans had a policy to
eliminate every Jew they got their hands on.



2) Why is their no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill’s six volume History
of the Second World War or the wartime memoirs of either De Gaulle or
Eisenhower or any of the other lesser luminaries who wrote about the Second World
War. Keep in mind all these were written years after the war ended and thus after
the holocaust had been allegedly proven by the Nuremberg Trials? With regard
to the Holocaust, the silence of these “ cognoscenti “ is deafening!



3) What was an inmate infirmary (and a brothel) doing in Auschwitz if in fact
it was a death camp?



4) Why would the Germans round up Jews from their far flung empire, thereby
tying up large numbers of personnel and rolling stock, while fighting a world
war on two fronts to deliver people to ‘’death camps’’ hundreds of miles away
who were then executed upon arrival…wouldn't a bullet on the spot have
appealed to legendary German sense of efficiency?



5) Why after sixty years have historians been unable to come up with a single
German document that points to a holocaust? Should we believe the likes of
Raul Hilburg that in the place of written orders there was an “incredible
meeting of the minds” by the literally tens of thousands of people who would have
had to coordinate their actions in order to carry out an undertaking of this
magnitude.



6) How come it is still insisted upon that six million Jews were killed when
the official Jewish death toll at Auschwitz, the flagship of the Holocaust
gulag, has been reduced from an immediate post war figure of 3 million, to a
figure of somewhat less than one million? Why do many respond to this observation
by saying, “ what's the difference whether it's six million or one million’’.
The answer is that the difference is five million. Another difference is that
saying so can get you three years in an Austrian jail...just ask David
Irving!



7) All of Germany's wartime codes were compromised including the one used to
send daily reports from Auschwitz to Berlin. The transcripts of these messages
make no mention of mass executions or even remotely suggest a genocidal
program in progress. Furthermore it has been insisted that the Germans used a kind
of
euphemistic code when discussing their extermination program of the Jews e.g.
final solution, special treatment, resettlement, etc. Why was it necessary
for them to use such coded euphemisms when talking to one another unless they
thought their codes had been cracked by the Allies?



8) The water table at Auschwitz lies a mere 18 inches below the surface which
makes claims of huge burning pits for the disposal of tens of thousands of
victims untenable.



9) Initially claims were made that mass executions in homicidal gas chambers
had taken place in camps located within the boundaries of the old Reich e.g.
Dachau, Bergen-Belsen. ‘’Evidence’’ to that effect was every bit as
compelling as what was offered for other camps, located in occupied Poland, yet without
explanation in the early sixties we were told that this was not the case and
that all the ‘’death camps’’ were located in the East i.e. Poland outside
(some would say conveniently) of the probing eyes of western scholars.



10) No one has been able to reconcile the eyewitness accounts that personnel
entered the gas chambers after twenty minutes without any protective gear and
the fact that
Zyclon B was a “time release” fumigant that would have had a lethal
capability for at least another twenty-four hours. And that even after twenty-four
hours the corpses would have themselves remained sufficiently contaminated by the
hydrogen cyanide gas that they would have had the capacity to kill anyone who
touched them who were not wearing protective gear.



11) Why do we no longer hear claims that the Germans manufactured soap, lamp

shades and riding britches from the bodies of dead Jews…could it be that in
the light of modern forensics and DNA knowledge these claims are totally
untenable?



12) Why do we no longer hear claims that huge numbers of Jews were
exterminated in massive steam chambers or electrocuted on special grids…’’evidence’’
of this was presented at Nuremberg…evidence that sent men to the gallows.



14) Elie Wiesel has been described as “the Apostle of Remembrance” yet in
his memoir, ‘’Night’’ which deals his stay at Auschwitz he makes no mention of
the now infamous homicidal gas chambers. Isn't this a bit like one of the
Gospels making no mention of the Cross?

15) Virtually every survivor who was examined at Auschwitz says that he or
she was examined by the infamous Dr. Mengele.

16) According to survivor testimony, hundreds of thousands of Jews were
executed at Treblinka and then buried in mass graves in the surrounding area. Why
is it that extensive sonar probing of these burial grounds reveals that this
alleged final resting place for Holocaust victims has remained undisturbed since
at least the last ice age?

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

PART II
_____________


17) ‘’Proof’’ of the holocaust rest primarily on survivor testimony; there
little if any hard evidence. The best of this has been described by Jean
Claude Pressac as merely ‘’criminal traces’’. Even Judge Grey who presided at the
Irving-Lipstadt Trial commented that he was surprised the evidence pointing
to the Holocaust was ‘’extremely thin’’. To paraphrase Arthur Butz, ‘’a
crime of this magnitude would have left a mountain of evidence’’…where is it?
There was more hard evidence against OJ Simpson at his trial and he was FOUND
INNOCENT!

18) Why has Holocaust Revisionism been criminalized in at least eleven
countries…what other historic truth needs the threat of prison or the destruction of
one's career to maintain itself. Should someone be sent to prison for
expressing skepticism about the official Chinese claim that they suffered thirty-five
million dead in World War II?

19) Why do the court historians insist that “denying the Holocaust” is like
denying slavery or saying the earth is flat when it is nothing of the sort.
The leading Revisionists are first rate scholars who hold advanced degrees from
the world's leading universities. Is there anyone comparable among those who
say the world is flat or that slavery never existed?



20) Promoters of the Holocaust have expressed concerns about the remembering
the holocaust once the last survivors die. Why haven't Civil War historians
expressed similar concerns since the last survivor of that conflict died in 1959?




21) Survivors of the holocaust have testified that smoke billowed from the
crematoriums as they consumed the bodies of murdered victims…some eyewitnesses
even claimed they could detect national origins by the color of the smoke. How
can this be reconciled with the fact that properly operating crematoriums do
not produce smoke of any color?



22) According to the official version of the Holocaust hundreds of thousands
of Hungarian Jews were rounded up in mid 1944 and sent to Auschwitz where most
were gassed immediately upon arrival and their bodies were disposed of by
burning in huge open air pits using railroad ties and gasoline. Why is that there
is no evidence of these huge funerary pyres in the high resolution
surveillance photos taken by Allied aircraft who were over flying the camp on a daily
basis during this time period. Furthermore, why have no remains been found,
since open pit burning, even when gasoline is used, generates insufficient heat
to totally consume a body?



23) All of the liberated camps were littered with corpses; is there a single
autopsy report or any other forensic evidence that shows that even a single
one of these deaths was a consequence of poison gas?



24) The death toll for the Holocaust relies exclusively on population
statistics provided by Jewish sources; has any independent demographic study been
produced that shows that approximately six million Jews were “missing” at the
end of the war.



25) Why do the wartime inspection reports of camps made by the International
Red Cross contain no references to mass executions…it strains credulity that
such monumental crimes could be hidden. The only explanations are that either
these crimes were not occurring or that the Red Cross was complicit in a cover
up.



26) Why has there been no effort to respond to the Leuchter Report?



27) “The Holocaust was technologically possible because it happened “. Why
is this intellectually bankrupt argument, which turns scholarship on its head,
considered by the promoters of the Holocaust as historical truth, considered a
sufficient response to the mounting Revisionist evidence to the contrary?



28) What other historical truths rely to the extent that the holocaust does
on so-called “eye witness” testimony…and why have none of these witnesses ever
been cross examined?



29) According to the official version of the Holocaust, the Jews remained
ignorant of their fate until the very end so skillful were their Nazis murderers
in deceiving their victims. How can this ignorance be reconciled with the fact
that the Jews have historically been as a group, the most literate and highly
informed people on the planet with legendary access to the highest echelons
of government.

+++++++

Professor F. Littell has said: "You can't discuss the truth of the holocaust.
That is a distortion of the concept of free speech. The United States should
emulate Germany, which outlaws such exercises." --Mind-boggling! Don't you
think?

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p365_Bennett.html

+++++++

"Deep down, I believe that a little anti-Semitism is a good thing for the
Jews - reminds us who we are." --Jay Lefkowitz (NYT Magazine. Feb.12, 1995. Page
65). Jay Lefkowitz is now Deputy Assistant to the President for Domestic
Policy. A sick man! Don't you think?

+++++++

Chinese Axiom:
When things are investigated, knowledge is extended. When knowledge is
extended, the will becomes sincere. When the will is sincere, the mind is correct.
When the mind is correct, the self is cultivated.
--Confucius





______________


Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

How disappointing.

This article has been gleefully seized by numerous white supremacist, neo-nazi fora.
http://www.whitealert.com/main.htm

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/greatbritishfascistfront/messages/501?viscount=100


http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=119386&highlight=Giuseppe+Furioso





Perhaps this site will offer some new info for you. It is one of many. One can Google and find more.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/hungarian-photos/

Yep. Just what I expected. Business as usual: Whenever anyone questions ANY aspect of the Holocaust, someone else immediately steps up and waves the "racism" flag, in a lazy attempt to discredit the person asking the questions. Usually followed by a bunch of shocking pictures of dead people and such. How original.

Did you even read any of the questions, or did you just see "Holocaust", and start preparing your Googled response from there?.....

I already KNOW that lots of white supremacist morons use this and other such articles to try to bolster their ridiculous arguments.

That is not news.

That is also irrelevant to the question at hand.

I know it is difficult for many, but PLEASE try to put the issue of RACE aside altogether for a moment, and think logically instead of emotionally, and consider the actual QUESTIONS that the article asks.

Discrepancies and contradictions DO exist in the "official" history of the event. A LOT of them. The author merely poses questions about those discrepancies and contradictions.

You have any actual answers to those questions?

Anyone can Google up pages and pages of great shock-value pictures...

I'm not claiming that the Holocaust never happened.

I'm not claiming that the Nazis were not guilty of unspeakable atrocities.

So all you knee-jerkers PLEASE spare us all the drama and the feigned indignation.

I would just like to know why there is so much confusion, contradiction, and inconsistency in the telling of the tale.

Some actual attempts at answering some of the writer's questions would be refreshing.

Anyone?....

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

You answer them.

Well, apparently my guess was correct: You didn't read a damned thing that I posted. You only made it to the word "Holocaust", and then your knee involuntarily jerked, didn't it?!

Because the very FIRST thing that I said was that "I haven't done nearly enough homework on the subject... "

...which obviously means that I don't HAVE the answers... Which explains why I'm asking QUESTIONS (using the article I quoted)!!!!

Apparently you don't have any answers either (you apparently didn't even bother to read the questions in the first place), so PLEASE kindly take your shock-value links and step aside, so that perhaps someone who DOES want to actually address the subject with logic, knowledge, and insight will step up.

Thank you.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

"I will start by saying that I haven't done NEARLY enough homework on the subject to form any substantial opinions of my own...."

Mike, do start reading up a little first, before you give this holocaust-denial crap any further attention.
The 'unique' thing about the Holocaust is that the Germans documented everything, and that means EVERYTHING. The proof is beyond any reasonable doubt. Read up.

__________________
2011 Prius

It is popular, and considered evidence of an open mind to question much that has been regarded as truth. Sometimes such "open mindedness" is simply ignorance, orn in some cases willful ignorance.

History, real, true history, is never so neat so as to close all the loop holes that can exist. If all the questions were answered, someone would say, " Isn't this just a little too neat?"

Noone can be convinced against their will.

The evidence, the eye witness accounts are all a matter of record. Read. Look at the footage of the mass graves, and bull dozers being used to bury the dead.

To believe this was all a hoax would require ignoring far more evidence than the few questions raised in that article.

As you said, you have a lot of hiomework to do. Do not allow your ignorance ( used in the proper sense) to lead you to questtion doubt these events. As you said in your disclaimer, you are not a white supremicst; I accept that. But allowing the "halocost is a hoax" to percolate in your brain can be a step in that direction. Do the research to answer those questions yourself. Do not be so passive, and expect to be spoon-fed. Be a grown up and do the hard work, yourself.

__________________
1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Anyone who has any questions about whether the holocaust happened should ask a Jewish friend.

__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

1) Why did Elie Wiesel and countless other Jews survive the Holocaust if it
was the intention of the Third Reich to eliminate every Jew they got there
hands on?

C'mon, you find this a logical and interesting question? ANSWER: Because they didn't get them all. The WHO tried to eliminate smallpox but an occasional case pops up pop up Does that mean no one tried to eliminate smallpox?

2)Why is their no mention of the Holocaust in Churchill’s six volume History
of the Second World War or the wartime memoirs of either De Gaulle or
Eisenhower or any of the other lesser luminaries who wrote about the Second World War. ANSWER: strangely enough they failed to mention gravity also. Must not have existed. Or perhaps none of these people were pleased with their inaction regarding the extermination of millions of people. Or maybe it is mentioned, I don't know, haven't read em, doubt the skinhead did either.

4) Why would the Germans round up Jews from their far flung empire, thereby
tying up large numbers of personnel and rolling stock, while fighting a world
war on two fronts to deliver people to ‘’death camps’’ hundreds of miles away
who were then executed upon arrival…wouldn't a bullet on the spot have
appealed to legendary German sense of efficiency? ANSWER Why move them at all if they weren't to be killed? But if you did kill them where you found them how would you dispose of the bodies?

5) Why after sixty years have historians been unable to come up with a single German document that points to a holocaust? ANSWER there are tons of docs, the Germans are very meticulous.

How come it is still insisted upon that six million Jews were killed when
the official Jewish death toll at Auschwitz, the flagship of the Holocaust
gulag, has been reduced from an immediate post war figure of 3 million, to a
figure of somewhat less than one million? ANSWER Auschwitz was actually comprised of several camps including Birkenau which was a pure killing camp other camps in Auschwitz were labor camps. There were another 4 or 5 pure death camps, plus not all jews will killed in camps. But hey, a million jews here, a million jews there, pretty soon your talking about a lot of dead freaking jews.

8) The water table at Auschwitz lies a mere 18 inches below the surface which makes claims of huge burning pits for the disposal of tens of thousands of victims untenable. ANSWER Sobibor was the camp with the open fire pit.

17) ‘’Proof’’ of the holocaust rest primarily on survivor testimony; there
little if any hard evidence. The best of this has been described by Jean
Claude Pressac as merely ‘’criminal traces’’. Even Judge Grey who presided at the
Irving-Lipstadt Trial commented that he was surprised the evidence pointing
to the Holocaust was ‘’extremely thin’’. To paraphrase Arthur Butz, ‘’a
crime of this magnitude would have left a mountain of evidence’’…where is it?
There was more hard evidence against OJ Simpson at his trial and he was FOUND INNOCENT!
ANSWER: See these?

These are the remains of cremated jews from Birkenau. They had 5 "kremas" running if I remember correctly.

20) Promoters of the Holocaust have expressed concerns about the remembering the holocaust once the last survivors die. Why haven't Civil War historians expressed similar concerns since the last survivor of that conflict died in 1959? This one is so profound I'm at a loss. WTF?

21) Survivors of the holocaust have testified that smoke billowed from the
crematoriums as they consumed the bodies of murdered victims…some eyewitnesses
even claimed they could detect national origins by the color of the smoke. How can this be reconciled with the fact that properly operating crematoriums do not produce smoke of any color? Someone should take away their morticians licence.

26) Why has there been no effort to respond to the Leuchter Report?http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/ That took about 2 seconds to google.

29) According to the official version of the Holocaust, the Jews remained
ignorant of their fate until the very end so skillful were their Nazis murderers
in deceiving their victims. How can this ignorance be reconciled with the fact
that the Jews have historically been as a group, the most literate and highly
informed people on the planet with legendary access to the highest echelons
of government. ANSWER obviously they were too busy running hollywood and the tri lateral commision to notice. That or in a weakened state from not having enough Christian blood they knew, but could do nothing to prevent it.

...or a Gypsies, Poles, mentally retarded, Jehova's, Communists, etc. etc.

__________________
2011 Prius

Exactly, my Grandfathers brother and best friends father were in the 101st Airborne unit that was one of the first to discover a concentration camp. There is no way in hell anyone could ever convince them that the holocaust never happened.

And if you ask the people that make High Fructose Corn Syrup... there isn't anything wrong with it.

I'll keep out of this thread but I give the OP a lot of credit for posting it the way he did. Did it happen? Yes. Did it happen even close to the way the "Jewish" people claim it did. Not even close.

The reason I write "Jewish" people is because they are the ones that hyped it and focus on it. The rest of the folks have moved beyond it. But hey, the wheel that squeeks gets the oil.

Gotta please dont forget to reference your proof provided by StormFront.org.

It just started to smell in here...