Hybrid's and Dependance on forign oil - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

alabbasi · #1 08-08-2006, 12:05 PM

I was listening to the radio this morning and the above topic came up again. Aside from the fact that the Prius looks like a moo moo, I would be concerned about parts availability and the life expectancy of an electric motor.

I still don't understand how this is such a huge problem. Isn't it just a case of getting out of your SUV and buying a smaller more efficient car? There are a lot of cars sold in Europe that can do 50mpg on Diesel. Ten years ago Citroen had a car (AX) that could do more then 70mpg on the highway.

Here are a few:

http://parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/data.aspx?model_id=584&id=24355

http://parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/data.aspx?model_id=1346&id=29875

http://parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/data.aspx?model_id=536&id=25638

http://parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/data.aspx?model_id=1397&id=31504

http://parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/data.aspx?model_id=1405&id=32137

http://parkers.co.uk/choosing/specs/data.aspx?model_id=1177&id=26889

Maybe I'm looking at it too simplistically, I would love to hear the opinions of fellow members.

All the best

aklim · #2 08-08-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

I was listening to the radio this morning and the above topic came up again. Aside from the fact that the Prius looks like a moo moo, I would be concerned about parts availability and the life expectancy of an electric motor.

I still don't understand how this is such a huge problem. Isn't it just a case of getting out of your SUV and buying a smaller more efficient car? There are a lot of cars sold in Europe that can do 50mpg on Diesel. Ten years ago Citroen had a car (AX) that could do more then 70mpg on the highway.

Maybe I'm looking at it too simplistically, I would love to hear the opinions of fellow members.

All the best

Well, some people are comfortable in one car and not another. How do you explain it? My buddy was comfortable in his Mustang but hated the way the Vette and Firebirds were. I, OTOH, will not pay more than $100 for a working FWD car. I don't like the way they handle. Why did you buy an MB of all cars? Becasuse you liked it. Why not a Dodge Neon?

As to SUVs, the thing you have to understand is that they are not a good specific purpose car. If I was hauling just a heavy camper, I'd get a truck which could use a goosneck or a tow behind as opposed to an SUV that had only tow behind capabilites. If I want a run around car, I could get a smaller car. If I wanted a vehicle to take my larger dogs, I could get a large station wagon. I could also use the wagon to carry newspapers that I sometimes deliver for something to do during the day. If I wanted to cruise, I'd take the MB. HOWEVER, none of these vehicles can do what the SUV can. The trade off is that the SUV is not going to excel at any one thing. For my purposes, I could buy a station wagon to use as a 2nd car. However, a reliable station wagon would cost around $6-8K. Add the insurance and all that, well, you get the picture. Did I really want an SUV? Nope. Do I need one? Yes. Is there a cheaper alternative? Probably not.

So, sometimes you might see me at the grocer with the SUV and wonder why I need to use such a huge vehicle for a gallon of milk. However, little do you realize that I might have just used it to haul newspapers, 12 huge bags of grass clipppings, or that the wife has the MB. Or that I just parked the Toy Hauler (8000#) somewhere and am getting a few supplies.

Mistress · #3 08-08-2006, 01:23 PM

I read somewhere tht Mercedes has an "A" class car tht is very fuel efficient and looks like the early honda car (a roller skate). In the article it also stated that it would be awhile before these are imported into the US.

alabbasi · #4 08-08-2006, 01:28 PM

I understand that it's a matter of opinion and a case. I was raised in the UK and to me, $3/gallon is still cheap. This is why I have no problems owning four V8 engined cars. I like V8's

That said, I don't b**ch about the cost of fuel and I certainly won't blame a foreign country for the fact that I like to drive a V8.

So I guess my question wasn't clear.

Fuel efficient cars have been sold around the world for many years. Even in middle east, most cars are 4 cylinder and the most common Mercedes Benz is the 200. Diesels are efficient and can be made to run on veggie oil. There are plenty of very efficient gas powered cars that have been modified to run on LPG at very little cost.

So with all these vehicles already available, why have we moved towards hybrid and sweet corn technology.

Mercedes Benz and Range Rover make fairly efficient diesel SUV's that are not sold in the US (even though the MB ML series is built here)

alabbasi · #5 08-08-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siduri19

I read somewhere tht Mercedes has an "A" class car tht is very fuel efficient and looks like the early honda car (a roller skate). In the article it also stated that it would be awhile before these are imported into the US.

The A class is in one of the links

General
Production: 19 Feb 2005 until now
Length: 3838 mm
Width: 1764 mm
Height: 1593 mm
Weight: 1300 kg
Fuel Delivery: Common rail
Transmission: Manual
Gears: 5 Speed

+− Performance
Engine Size: 1992 cc
Cylinders: 4
0-60 mph: 14.5 s
Power Output: 82 bhp
Valves: 16
Torque: 180 Nm
Torque: 133 lb/ft
Top Speed: 106 mph

+− Practicality
Unbraked Towing Weight: 400 Kg
Braked Towing Weight: 1000 Kg
Wheelbase: 2568 mm
Luggage Capacity: 435 litres
TurningCircle: 10 m
Fuel Capacity: 54 litres

+− Costs
MPG: 57
Insurance Group: 5
Euro Emissions Standard: 4
CO2 Emissions: 128 g/km

jonschwenke · #6 08-08-2006, 01:38 PM

Remember, our infrastructure is HIGHLY dependent on oil and its byproducts. Propane is used for all kinds of heating and cooking. Fuel oil is used to heat homes, businesses, run generators. Diesel, gas and other petroleum fuels power the enormous network of transport tractor trailers, airlines, busses, ships etc... the list goes on. IMO ditching the gas guzzling SUV's for more practical, fuel efficent vehicles is a start, but seems to me it's only a drop in the bucket. We really (as a world population) need to rapidly move towards more readily available, efficient, less polluting sources of energy. Sun, wind, water, methane, waste vegetable oil

, alcohols, hydrogen, etc. I'm not a hippie or an energy guru. I just hate seeing people / businesses shell out ridiculous sums of money for a more polluting form of energy, when they can probably spend the same amount or less on something that isn't so bad for the environment and so good for the fat cat oil tycoons - in ALL countries.

raymr · #7 08-08-2006, 02:21 PM

We drive greater distances here and nobody wants a little box that blows all over the road. If you look a the big dogs on the Autobahn, you will see that they are Porsches, big M-Bs, and BMWs. None of them get stellar gas mileage, although the M-B and BMWs have more diesel options over there. But (butt?) when it comes down to it, big pudgy US customers like big pudgy cars, plus past lawsuits against the car companies have stifled innovation here, unless it becomes an absolute necessity to change.

TheDon · #8 08-08-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So, sometimes you might see me at the grocer with the SUV and wonder why I need to use such a huge vehicle for a gallon of milk. However, little do you realize that I might have just used it to haul newspapers, 12 huge bags of grass clipppings, or that the wife has the MB. Or that I just parked the Toy Hauler (8000#) somewhere and am getting a few supplies.

you must be one of the small percentage of SUV owners that actually use their SUV for the purpose it should be used for

aklim · #9 08-08-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

We drive greater distances here and nobody wants a little box that blows all over the road. If you look a the big dogs on the Autobahn, you will see that they are Porsches, big M-Bs, and BMWs. None of them get stellar gas mileage, although the M-B and BMWs have more diesel options over there. But (butt?) when it comes down to it, big pudgy US customers like big pudgy cars, plus past lawsuits against the car companies have stifled innovation here, unless it becomes an absolute necessity to change.

I usually am not interested in cars under 3000#. Our E300 tipped the scales at 3920 this morning. Our C280 got a hit in the driver door by a Civic. The Civic driver fared worse than I. Hence, I got an E300. A little stouter with modern conveniences.

aklim · #10 08-08-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

you must be one of the small percentage of SUV owners that actually use their SUV for the purpose it should be used for

Well, even if I don't tow, it is a handy vehicle for carrying stuff, skirting around town, etc, etc. Of course, I wouldn't have gotten an Excursion. I'd have a V8 Expidition for any light hauling. Basically, I feel the SUV is a good all around vehicle that can serve many purposes decently, but because of the nature of the beast, it does none of them well.

diametricalbenz · #11 08-08-2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

you must be one of the small percentage of SUV owners that actually use their SUV for the purpose it should be used for

The only reason people drive SUV's around here is because you can't shove 25" wheels into a 1984 Isusu I-Mark or put letters hanging from the rear window that reads. "MAGNIFICENT"

Dee8go · #12 08-08-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siduri19

I read somewhere tht Mercedes has an "A" class car tht is very fuel efficient and looks like the early honda car (a roller skate). In the article it also stated that it would be awhile before these are imported into the US.

Was that in the movie The DaVinci Code? I thought I saw it make an appearance in that movie as the car driven by the French cryptologist, who was one of the two main characters. Anybody know?

alabbasi · #13 08-08-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I usually am not interested in cars under 3000#. Our E300 tipped the scales at 3920 this morning. Our C280 got a hit in the driver door by a Civic. The Civic driver fared worse than I. Hence, I got an E300. A little stouter with modern conveniences.

Still, there is an E-Class with a smaller Diesel engine (2.2 liters) that can still do 44 mpg

General
Production: 15 Aug 2002 until 01 Sep 2003
Length: 4818 mm
Width: 1822 mm
Height: 1452 mm
Weight: 1610 kg
Fuel Delivery: Common rail
Transmission: Semi-Auto
Gears: 6 Speed

+− Performance
Engine Size: 2148 cc
Cylinders: 4
0-60 mph: 9.8 s
Power Output: 150 bhp
Valves: 16
Torque: 340 Nm
Torque: 251 lb/ft
Top Speed: 134 mph

+− Practicality
Wheelbase: 2854 mm
Luggage Capacity: 520 litres
TurningCircle: 11 m
Fuel Capacity: 65 litres

+− Costs
MPG: 44
Insurance Group: 14
Euro Emissions Standard: 3
CO2 Emissions: 157 g/km

aklim · #14 08-08-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

Still, there is an E-Class with a smaller Diesel engine (2.2 liters) that can still do 44 mpg

But will it feel poochy? I know my 99 E300 does feel poochy even with the chipped ECM. Even the C280 felt more spritely than it does. I can't even begin to imagine a NA 606 engine.

alabbasi · #15 08-08-2006, 06:42 PM

It has 150hp and can do 134mph so it's not all bad, but I guess we don't really need to reduce our dependence of foreign oil, we just need cheaper gas