China's deserts continue to expand along with its burgeoning population - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #1 09-26-2006, 03:05 AM

How's that go again about how the earth can support 3-4 times our current population? At the rate things are going with China's creeping deserts, China will be in a real struggle just to support its current populace before too long.

Li'l bit:

Overgrazing, along with persistent drought, indiscriminate use of ground water, and rampant logging, are eroding the edges of China's deserts, allowing them to merge and spread. Recent satellite imagery shows that the Badain Jaran Desert in north-central China is pushing southward toward the nearby Tengger Desert to form a single, larger desert overlapping both northwestern Gansu province and neighboring Inner Mongolia.

Expanding deserts swallow almost a million acres of land every year, China's Environmental Protection Agency says. Soon, 40 percent of China could turn into scrubland, creating enormous social, economic and ecological challenges, including the problem of millions of "ecological refugees."

Significantly, it's not just tiny hamlets like Li's that are being threatened. The legendary Gobi Desert in central China has expanded by about 25,000 square miles since 1994, and its sands are now within 100 miles of Beijing.

Though the country is currently self-sufficient in food, production of most grains is slipping, largely because about a million acres of arable land have been lost to urban sprawl over the last decade, according to official reports.

Jim B. · #2 09-26-2006, 03:47 AM

That's an interesting article (where do you find this stuff!!)

Cold comfort, but I'm reminded of the saying "Nature Bats Last"

The modernization and prosperity and industrialization is simply staggering when you think back on Mao's failed "Great Leap Forward" and "Let 1,000 flowers bloom" programs with the homemade backyard steel plants from about 1958-1966

They have made some serious consistent (sometimes brutal) efforts at population control since the Communist takeover in 1949 at least.

cmac2012 · #3 09-26-2006, 04:37 AM

I almost missed that one. It was in the Sunday SF Chron. I've been reading bits and pieces about this for a while. Nat. Geo had a spread a couple of years ago about it -- pictures of sand dunes lapping at the edge of farms.

Thing that worries me about this, there was a post or a thread a couple years ago about a wacko Chinese general who was basically saying that we had all sort of good, vacant land in the US. I forget the details but I'm pretty sure it involved them taking some of that land.

Individual Chinese are doing their best to get here now.

Botnst · #4 09-26-2006, 06:55 AM

Read about China's coal mine fires. Talk about CO2 emissions.

aklim · #5 09-26-2006, 01:14 PM

You do realize that in the future, colonization of other planets might relieve the issue. That is the problem with these predictions, they are based on the same thing as the oil running out prediction. Today's technology. Oil wells that were dry in the 70s are pumping oil again. Why? Because we have tomorrow's technology being used.

Hatterasguy · #6 09-26-2006, 01:46 PM

Sucks to be them. Don't worry we make so much extra food, maybe we can ship some to them insted of letting it rot. At great prices of course.

GottaDiesel · #7 09-26-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

How's that go again about how the earth can support 3-4 times our current population? At the rate things are going with China's creeping deserts, China will be in a real struggle just to support its current populace before too long.

Li'l bit:

Overgrazing, along with persistent drought, indiscriminate use of ground water, and rampant logging, are eroding the edges of China's deserts, allowing them to merge and spread. Recent satellite imagery shows that the Badain Jaran Desert in north-central China is pushing southward toward the nearby Tengger Desert to form a single, larger desert overlapping both northwestern Gansu province and neighboring Inner Mongolia.

Expanding deserts swallow almost a million acres of land every year, China's Environmental Protection Agency says. Soon, 40 percent of China could turn into scrubland, creating enormous social, economic and ecological challenges, including the problem of millions of "ecological refugees."

Significantly, it's not just tiny hamlets like Li's that are being threatened. The legendary Gobi Desert in central China has expanded by about 25,000 square miles since 1994, and its sands are now within 100 miles of Beijing.

Though the country is currently self-sufficient in food, production of most grains is slipping, largely because about a million acres of arable land have been lost to urban sprawl over the last decade, according to official reports.

That's OK. If they end up in trouble... they already own plenty of the United States. They will be just fine.

BENZ-LGB · #8 09-26-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

How's that go again about how the earth can support 3-4 times our current population? At the rate things are going with China's creeping deserts, China will be in a real struggle just to support its current populace before too long.

Li'l bit:

Overgrazing, along with persistent drought, indiscriminate use of ground water, and rampant logging, are eroding the edges of China's deserts, allowing them to merge and spread. Recent satellite imagery shows that the Badain Jaran Desert in north-central China is pushing southward toward the nearby Tengger Desert to form a single, larger desert overlapping both northwestern Gansu province and neighboring Inner Mongolia.

Expanding deserts swallow almost a million acres of land every year, China's Environmental Protection Agency says. Soon, 40 percent of China could turn into scrubland, creating enormous social, economic and ecological challenges, including the problem of millions of "ecological refugees."

Significantly, it's not just tiny hamlets like Li's that are being threatened. The legendary Gobi Desert in central China has expanded by about 25,000 square miles since 1994, and its sands are now within 100 miles of Beijing.

Though the country is currently self-sufficient in food, production of most grains is slipping, largely because about a million acres of arable land have been lost to urban sprawl over the last decade, according to official reports.

Good article.

We can control, to some degree, environmental damage here and in Western Europe.

What can we do about China and India?

TheDon · #9 09-26-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Sucks to be them. Don't worry we make so much extra food, maybe we can ship some to them insted of letting it rot. At great prices of course.

i find that funny actually... our own country cant provide heating oil for the working poor, nor help feed the poor(i say get off your asses but some people cant get the idea) and we send crap over seas... good ole usa

jlomon · #10 09-26-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

What can we do about China and India?

Stop buying things from them. Stop transferring our jobs there. The western world pays a lot of lip service to environmental concerns but our real votes take place with our dollars. The problem is, I think the west has become so addicted to the cheap disposable products that China produces (as well as the cheap outsourcing solutions that India provides) that it is probably too late for us.

aklim · #11 09-26-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

i find that funny actually... our own country cant provide heating oil for the working poor, nor help feed the poor(i say get off your asses but some people cant get the idea) and we send crap over seas... good ole usa

Well, we send crap overseas because it buys us something. Besides, look at what is happening. We have our own poor here but tons of ministries and what not are trying to get us to adopt or help kids from somehweres. Why? Because to say that I helped Starvin Marvin from Timbukthree is more glamourous than I helped a kid in the Bronx

aklim · #12 09-26-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlomon

Stop buying things from them. Stop transferring our jobs there. The western world pays a lot of lip service to environmental concerns but our real votes take place with our dollars. The problem is, I think the west has become so addicted to the cheap disposable products that China produces (as well as the cheap outsourcing solutions that India provides) that it is probably too late for us.

Not me. I don't pay lip service to environmental concerns. Did you know that "Lip Service" is one of Jenna Jameson's movies?

Well, what do you suggest if you owned Wal*Mart or any other shop? Can you justify buying a US made hammer at $10 when they are selling their version for #3 and not sell enough of them to keep afloat? So, what is the solution? Giving up. Yep, you heard me right. We cannot do cheap manufacturing. Give up. Move on to something else we can do and they cannot. They cannot get too far into the high tech stuff. Maybe we could go there. Let them manufacture all the cheap lighters, cars, etc, etc. We cannot compete there. Lets have the decency to admit it and move on to something we can compete in before it is too late.

cmac2012 · #13 09-26-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlomon

Stop buying things from them. Stop transferring our jobs there. The western world pays a lot of lip service to environmental concerns but our real votes take place with our dollars. The problem is, I think the west has become so addicted to the cheap disposable products that China produces (as well as the cheap outsourcing solutions that India provides) that it is probably too late for us.

Guilty. I try to buy American but there are tools made in China almost as good as US made tools that are maybe 1/3rd the price. Chinese steel was crappy 10-15 years ago but they've come a long way, frequently with help from US companies who set up there to get some of that easy money.

cmac2012 · #14 09-26-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Read about China's coal mine fires. Talk about CO2 emissions.

I can imagine. I've caught bits and pieces of that. I read about this stuff, and I have a better understanding of the draconian measures the Chinese govt. is using to try to reduce population. I read that they constantly sweep Bejing to send migrants back home.

Maroon 300D · #15 09-26-2006, 04:44 PM

Speaking of coal mine fires, there's one in Pennsylvania somewhere that's been smoldering for a number of decades now. Or was that WV? I think it was PA.

Growing up I was always told that this was how the family lost its fortune - the coal mine (not the one in PA) caught on fire.