Either way, doesn't someone step in simply because they have something to lose? I help the cute neighbor edge her grass because when she bends over, I get a free show or she bakes me cookies. The people across the street don't do a thing for me and I don't do a thing for them. Why? We have no mutual interests. We do that in daily life. Think about the altruistic acts you perform. Are they really altruistic? I think not. You get some reward for it. Either in a physical payment or in some feeling of goodness having done something good since you have been programmed for it.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I am writing my thank you speech right now, just having a hard time deciding what should I start with: Yalta Conference, Iron Curtain, Gulags in Siberia or 50 years of communist rule. Decisions, decisions...

Alex

If you guys didn't like the Russians should have fought them.


For the recored General Patton knew the Russians were no good and wanted to ally with what was left of the German army and push them back to there borders.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Well let me suggest a few things you can add. Places like Normandy, the Somme, Passchendaele, Vimy, Ypres, Hong Kong, Burma, Eindhoven, and Ortona are good places to start. Plenty of others along the way. In case you weren't getting the references, those are the places that Canadians fought and died to liberate not once but twice in the past hundred years. Canadians like my grandfather and great-grandfather. Countries such as France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Italy have war cemetaries full of Canadians who didn't come home. Plenty of other nationalities as well. So yeah, I get a little bent out of shape when people from the countries we've helped to liberate want to take shots at the motivations behind our involvement. You're a Canadian, right? I'm sure I'll see you out at a Remembrence Day service next week.

Lest we forget, indeed.

No, I am not Canadian, I have spent some time there.
My country has never needed to be "liberated" from the Germans, my grandfather died defending it against the Russians not the Germans.

As to original topic, why would the EU (an economic union without a standing army) care about a country's civil war in Africa?

Alex

i tend to think russian maybe too. but our supplying them with trucks and planes and such was important to their efforts too.

we shipped a whole lot of trucks to russia built in south bend indiana...studies. the studie trucks were generally acknowledged to be tougher than the fords and chebbys. the russians loved the studies so much they copied them and cotinued to build them up into the eighties, i believe.

b. you mentioned the us public being "tricked". if you are referring to FDR bringing along the public a little at a time when the public didn't want another european adventure, then i would suggest that the "trickery" was an appropriate use of the bully pulpit.

i have no regrets at our involvment in ww2. we had no choice really. if germany hadnt been stopped they would have eventually threatened us.

of course attacking russia was a blunder on hitler's part too.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

They were called ZIL, but they looked liked Fords.
Dumptrucks with gasoline engines, what an incredible waste.

Alex

What people, and what shots? When you are at your Remembrance Day next week, ask the real WW2 vets about the gratitude of the folks they liberated here, AND their offspring. NOBODY in this part of the world disrespects the sacrifices of the GI's that fought and died here. I was in Colleville-sur-Mer this Summer, and the place was packed with European visitors. Questioning or even criticizing the events of that time does not degrade or reduce their individual contributions. Unless you're a WW2 vet yourself, your indignation is silly and conceited.

__________________
2011 Prius

That, quite frankly, is a "silly and conceited" comment. My family is/was full of veterans from both WW1 and WW2. Telling me that I have no right to be proud of the accomplishments of my country, and insulted by what I perceive as an ingracious comment, is ridiculous. You certainly don't have the right to tell me what I can be proud of or insulted by. Your comment questioning the motivations of the people who came to liberate your country was insulting to to me as someone who is proud of what their country and their forefathers have sacrificed for.

It looks like appropriate deception now. We (the allies) won and Roosevelt's foresight in getting us to a war footing 3 years before the war was a brilliant display of leadership. That deception probably shortened the war and saved an awful lot of Americans' lives, in all probability. Guessing what would have happened otherwise is an exercise in science fiction of a sort. Regardless of what might have happened, there's nothing like success to cover-up a multitude of sins.

Sometimes leaders want to do things that the voters don't like. Leaders rarely do so lightly because they know that the balance of history will judge them more harshly for failed effort than for no effort. There is no excuse for failure and when failure happens, every sin is exposed and minutely examined.

B

...hmm: I never mentioned Canada at all, and stated some historical facts regarding the mobilization of the USA against the Nazis, more than sixty years ago. If that appears ingracious and insultating, and upsets you, I really can't help that. Seems you expect some eternal, unconditional veneration. Perhaps consider moving to Ieper in Belgium: they play a memorial last post EVERY evening at eight o'clock over there.

__________________
2011 Prius