Pool filter time

[raymr]

Last summer I started getting trace amounts of sand in my pool, so I took the valve off the top of the filter to look around. I immediately saw that the stand pipe going up into the valve has no o-ring seal. Sand and other stuff had started abrading and seeping its way the wrong way back into the pool. Apparently there has never been a seal, the pipe just slides about 3 inches into the base of the valve. I can't use pipe cement obviously since the valve has to come off from time to time. I'd like to repair it of course, but since its over 12 years old, maybe its time for a replacement.

As far as I know, the only considerations are filtering capacity and deciding on sand or DE filtration. I understand DE is more expensive to maintain, but it filters more efficiently. Has anyone made the switch and noticed a difference?

[Larry Delor]

I'd stick with the sand filter. Although larger than the alternatives, its maintainance schedule is a breeze, and unlike cartridge filters, you don't need to replace your sand every few months.
My experience with DE filters is limited to my mother's pool. It had one when she bought the place, and didn't seem to work all that great - there was always silt in places where there shouldn't have been any.

O-rings and gaskets should be still available for your sand filter. If you need to "re-fresh" your filter, unscrew the lid, and mix up the sand a bit (you can also take some sand out, and replace with new sand). Mix it up well, as sometimes the water finds shortcuts through the sand.

[Bill Wood]

I agree, stay with the sand filter. I've owned 2 in-ground pools and sand filters do an adequate job and are simple to maintain.

My current pool is around 9 years old. I replaced the sand about 6 years ago. My pool gets such light usage that the sand really didn't need to be replaced at the time.

You should have an O-ring at the top of the stand pipe between it and the 5-way valve. (assuming your setup is similar to mine.) Attached are some pics I took when I replaced my sand.

The first pic shows the bottom of the 5-way valve and the 2 O-rings. The second pic is the stand pipe removed from the filter body.

When you replace these O-rings, be sure to give them a good coat of silicone lube.

[raymr]

Originally Posted by Webmaster

I agree, stay with the sand filter. I've owned 2 in-ground pools and sand filters do an adequate job and are simple to maintain.

My current pool is around 9 years old. I replaced the sand about 6 years ago. My pool gets such light usage that the sand really didn't need to be replaced at the time.

You should have an O-ring at the top of the stand pipe between it and the 5-way valve. (assuming your setup is similar to mine.) Attached are some pics I took when I replaced my sand.

The first pic shows the bottom of the 5-way valve and the 2 O-rings. The second pic is the stand pipe removed from the filter body.

When you replace these O-rings, be sure to give them a good coat of silicone lube.

Mine has a clamp-on multi valve, and there are no grooves for o-rings. Tagelus did away with them on some models. I either need to find a way to seal that connection, or get a new valve and stand pipe. By the time I buy those, I might as well get a whole new filter setup.

[Bill Wood]

I believe the clamp style valve should still have on O-ring.
Look here:
http://www.poolplaza.com/C-PFT-P.html

[mgburg]

Originally Posted by raymr

Last summer I started getting trace amounts of sand in my pool, ...

Don't want to throw a scare at 'ya raymr, but another thought could be...

A cracked/split return pipe feeding back into the pool, post-pump.

Back in '68, the step-father failed to bail the return lines properly before winter set in.

Springtime '69, we were seeing trace amounts of sand coming into the pool from the return vents. The pool folks came out, thinking it was the pump/filter arrangement going to hell, but they quickly determined that it was the return line, sucking sand back into the pipe and spewing it into the pool. The other "give-away" for the trouble-shooting of the cracked pipe was the fact that we were adding a "bit" more make-up water than usual.

Here's the "kicker" of the story...I'm the "mole" that ended up digging out the faulty pipes under the concrete deck that spring/summer, cutting and doping the piping back together and "repacking" the sand back into the tunnel/hole to complete the job. 12-years old and I'm a professional pipe-dope sniffer.

GAWD, that summer dragged on...

BTW, not only were the return lines BOTH split, so was the line from the skimmer, too. My mother ended up filing for divorce from the guy before winter set in, so I ended up "closing the pool" for the next couple of years, while we still lived there.

No cracked pipes on my freaking watch!!!! There's no way, in all of H3LL, that I was going to be under the concrete digging out, and pounding, sand for another summer!

[raymr]

Originally Posted by mgburg

Don't want to throw a scare at 'ya raymr, but another thought could be...

A cracked/split return pipe feeding back into the pool, post-pump.

Back in '68, the step-father failed to bail the return lines properly before winter set in.

Springtime '69, we were seeing trace amounts of sand coming into the pool from the return vents. The pool folks came out, thinking it was the pump/filter arrangement going to hell, but they quickly determined that it was the return line, sucking sand back into the pipe and spewing it into the pool. The other "give-away" for the trouble-shooting of the cracked pipe was the fact that we were adding a "bit" more make-up water than usual.

Here's the "kicker" of the story...I'm the "mole" that ended up digging out the faulty pipes under the concrete deck that spring/summer, cutting and doping the piping back together and "repacking" the sand back into the tunnel/hole to complete the job. 12-years old and I'm a professional pipe-dope sniffer.

GAWD, that summer dragged on...

BTW, not only were the return lines BOTH split, so was the line from the skimmer, too. My mother ended up filing for divorce from the guy before winter set in, so I ended up "closing the pool" for the next couple of years, while we still lived there.

No cracked pipes on my freaking watch!!!! There's no way, in all of H3LL, that I was going to be under the concrete digging out, and pounding, sand for another summer!

I hear ya! When I close it down, I blow the pipes out and add antifreeze for extra insurance. I already found the evidence (I hope). There was debris between the valve and stand pipe connection, and signs of sand abrasion on the pieces.

One question: How would sand get into the return lines if they are under pressure?

[Bill Wood]

Originally Posted by raymr

One question: How would sand get into the return lines if they are under pressure?

The supply lines are under positive pressure.
The return lines are under negative pressure.

The return lines suck!

[raymr]

Originally Posted by Webmaster

The supply lines are under positive pressure.
The return lines are under negative pressure.

The return lines suck!

OK, but then they go into the filter which removes the sand from the water Where is the sand in the pool coming from in mgburg's situation?

[mgburg]

The nearest we could figure was this...

When the area where the water was leaking OUT of the pipe formed a "pocket" and the area itself became so saturated with water that it wasn't even draining away, it "swirled" around and found itself being "pulled back into the pipe" (if you will) and then deposited on the floor of the pool.

As I mentioned before, it wasn't a lot of sand, just enough to say, "HUMMMM?"

As the for sand from the skimmer end - that stuff was ending up in the "secondary" strainer basket (right after the pipe came up through the concrete and before the the "diverter valve" on the filter/pump. We knew we had some sort of problem, but not the size or extent until I ended up digging it all out.

Now, as for where the sand itself came from...our pool was an "inground" unit - when they dug out the clay/dirt, they built the sides (metal) then they poured in tons of fine sand, smoothed it out like concrete (to make up the pool's floor) then they installed the liner, as they did, they added water and smoothed out any imperfections in the sand and the liner as it filled (the deep end was 7.5' and it sloaped up to the shallow end of 3.5'). When the water level reached the "bottom of the shallow end" it was then that the crew started to back-fill around the outer edge of the metal-shell with the same type of sand. That's the area where the crew made all the connections into and out of the pool with the piping and skimmer stuff.

When the sand was going in as back-fill, it was "watered down" to help compact and compress it. Then the water in the pool was brought up to the same level. It took about 5 hours for the process to be completed.

So, around all the pool's outer shell was a layer of sand (or buffer if you will) and that was the area where all the broken piping was laying. I/P & O/P.

Like I said, it was an area just large enough for a skinny-assed 12yo to spend his summer in.

[iwrock]

We have had two pools, and both have had hayward cartridge filters...... Never had a problem, but clean the filters every 3 months....


But question. Whats a better system? We need to replace the cartridges in the filter, and was wondering if it would be cost effective to switch to another type....

[raymr]

Well I sucked all the sand out today. A local pool guy suggested I wrap teflon tape around the stand pipe to make a seal, since we looked in the book and there really is no o-ring for this TA60D filter.

The lateral pipes in the bottom all look OK. I am considering replacing the sand with some new stuff called Zeobrite, which is supposed to have much better filtering properties than plain sand.

Regarding other options, a friend has a DE filter that he is very happy with. He cleans it every 2-3 weeks, which consists if backwashing and then recharging with new DE through the skimmer. The units cost twice as much as sand filters, but they trap 3-micron particles as opposed to 50-microns for sand.