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GottaDiesel 05-09-2007 10:08 AM

I was wondering when somebody would finally print this!
 
Iraq disrupts tornado recovery effort

Reuters


Overland Park, Kansas: A shortage of trucks, helicopters and other equipment - all sent to the war in Iraq - has hampered recovery in a US town obliterated by a tornado, Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius said on Monday.

"There is no doubt at all that this will slow down and hamper the recovery," Sebelius, a Democrat, told Reuters in Kansas, where officials said the statewide death toll had risen to 12 on Monday.

Huge handicap

"Not having this equipment in place all over the state is a huge handicap," Sebelius said.

The tornado that devastated Greensburg, 175 km west of Wichita, started a weekend of violent weather in Kansas, a state in the heart of the United States also known as "Tornado Alley."

"We're getting pounded in Kansas. We have the need for National Guard in two different parts of our state now. This is really going to be a problem."

Sebelius and other Democratic governors earlier this year assailed the Bush administration for the strains they said the war had placed on their states' National Guardsmen, frequently mobilised for state emergencies.

Adverse impact

On Monday, anti-war groups, including the National Security Network and Americans Against Escalation in Iraq cited the shortage of equipment to deal with the Kansas disaster as the latest example of what they see as the war's detrimental impact on domestic security.

Honus 05-09-2007 10:16 AM

Same old crap from the White House. This is from http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/08/snow-sebelius/:

Quote:

White House Blames Gov. Sebelius For National Guard Shortages
Kansas is currently missing approximately 60 percent of its National Guard equipment because of the war in Iraq, hampering its ability to respond to the recent tornadoes.

In a “spat reminiscent of White House finger-pointing at Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco after the federal government’s botched response to Hurricane Katrina,” White House Press Secretary Tony Snow this morning blamed Gov. Kathleen Sebelius (D) for the shortages, saying he was “not aware of any prior complaints” by the governor about the equipment:

If you don’t request it, you’re not going to get it. … As far as we know, the only thing the governor has requested are FM radios. There have been no requests to the National Guard for heavy equipment. … We are eager to provide what Kansas needs. But again there are also - you also have to go through the process of making the request first.

Snow’s statements are incorrect. On repeated occasions, Sebelius made clear to the White House that Kansas was dangerously low on National Guard equipment:

– Dec. 30, 2005: Sebelius writes to Rumsfeld requesting new equipment. “The Guard was critical to responding to recent blizzards and floods in Kansas, yet its ability to respond to similar situations is being diminished by a lack of equipment,” wrote Sebelius. Included with her letter was a list of equipment Kansas had lost to the Iraq war. [Kansas City Star, 1/21/06; Topeka Capital-Journal, 6/29/06]

– Jan. 23, 2006: Sebelius personally urges Bush to increase National Guard funding. In an one-hour motorcade ride in Kansas with Bush, Sebelius expressed concern about “a reduction of National Guard troop strength in its next budget.” Bush assured her he was “dealing” with the shortages. [Topeka Capital-Journal, 1/24/06; Kansas City Star, 3/11/06]

– June 28, 2006: Sebelius sends Army Secretary list of equipment lost in war. In a meeting with Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey, Sebelius told Harvey that the state had lost about $140 million in National Guard equipment to the Iraq war. Her office then sent him a list of the lost equipment. [Topeka Capital-Journal, 6/29/06]

– Sept. 2006: Sebelius lobbies for replacement of National Guard equipment sent to Iraq. “Kansas’ congressional delegation, Sebelius and governors from around the country have been lobbying the Pentagon for increased funding to replace National Guard equipment that has been left in Iraq or damaged beyond repair after repeated use in war.” [AP, 9/5/06]

– Feb. 27, 2007: Sebelius pushes White House and Congress for more funding. “Now the Guard needs Washington’s help,” Sebelius said in press conference on Capitol Hill. “The President and Congress need to step up to the plate and give our Guard members the support they deserve.” [Press Release, 2/27/07]

At today’s White House press briefing, a reporter confronted Snow about Sebelius’s past requests. Snow simply replied, “And what happened was, she actually did get — there was not a formal request. But they’d had conversations.” He also admitted that Sebelius did request more than FM Radios.

The Mahablog has more.

SwampYankee 05-09-2007 10:35 AM

Why anyone would expect anything else from the federal gubmint is beyond me, regardless of who is in office.

Whiskeydan 05-09-2007 11:20 AM

From an Angry Soldier
 
http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/309485032.html

Medmech 05-09-2007 11:31 AM

The 82nd Airborne division should have been parachuting in minutes after the tornado struck the small town and few Delta's to do some covert clean up. :rolleyes:

I am sure there are plenty of bulldozers and other heavy equipment in Kansas and pull some people off the unemployment line for clean-up. When Katrina hit every tree cutter in Michigan went down south to make some cha chang...until the migrant workers took over.

Medmech 05-09-2007 12:03 PM

Quote:

Snow recounted a phone conversation on Tuesday between Sebelius and Bush's White House-based homeland security adviser, Fran Townsend, in which the governor said she was pleased with the federal performance on the tornado and had everything she needed.

About the same time, Sebelius was doing her own backpedal from across the country.

Her spokeswoman, Nicole Corcoran, said the governor didn't mean to imply that the state was ill-equipped to deal with this storm.
Sebelius' comments about National Guard equipment were, instead, meant as a warning about the state's inability to handle additional disasters, such as another tornado or severe flooding, she said.

"We are doing absolutely fine right now," Corcoran said. "What the governor is talking about is down the road."
Always read the entire article.

GottaDiesel 05-09-2007 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee (Post 1502051)
Why anyone would expect anything else from the federal gubmint is beyond me, regardless of who is in office.

Agreed. But then what are we paying for?

SwampYankee 05-09-2007 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel (Post 1502124)
Agreed. But then what are we paying for?

Beats the hell out of me! :mad: And I suspect that you and I have very different political views.;)

Ken300D 05-09-2007 02:12 PM

There are newer schools in Baghdad than there are in Washington DC.

That's too much of a sacrifice to make for people who hate us and have no intention of changing their hate regardless of the circumstances.

SwampYankee 05-09-2007 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken300D (Post 1502205)
There are newer schools in Baghdad than there are in Washington DC.

That's too much of a sacrifice to make for people who hate us and have no intention of changing their hate regardless of the circumstances.

Some might say the same for Washington, DC.:cool:

GottaDiesel 05-09-2007 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee (Post 1502214)
Some might say the same for Washington, DC.:cool:

;) They are part of our country. Iraq... is not.

Carleton Hughes 05-09-2007 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guage (Post 1502065)
Yes, we are fighting wars in two countries!

Maybe some one forgot that! Like the Magic Negro & 10,000 dead.

I'm gwine to assume you are referencing Barracks Osama?????

GottaDiesel 05-09-2007 04:03 PM

Wars?

LaRondo 05-09-2007 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeydan (Post 1502079)

Yep!

Jim B. 05-09-2007 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan (Post 1502043)
Very soon we're gonna have to create our own armed militia for protection. :D

Oh, we already HAVE one, all right. (All those people like Mr MikeMover running around with their guns.)

Only thing is, it's not WELL ORGANIZED as the 2nd amendment mentioned.

LaRondo 05-09-2007 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guage (Post 1502286)
Iraq, Afghanistan an shortly we'll be in Kosovo.

Signed up already with Montenegro.

LaRondo 05-09-2007 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleton Hughes (Post 1502227)
I'm gwine to assume you are referencing Barracks Osama?????

Har Har.

LaRondo 05-09-2007 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel (Post 1502038)
Iraq disrupts tornado recovery effort

Reuters


Overland Park, Kansas: A shortage of trucks, helicopters and other equipment - all sent to the war in Iraq - has hampered recovery in a US town obliterated by a tornado, Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius said on Monday.

"There is no doubt at all that this will slow down and hamper the recovery," Sebelius, a Democrat, told Reuters in Kansas, where officials said the statewide death toll had risen to 12 on Monday.

Huge handicap

"Not having this equipment in place all over the state is a huge handicap," Sebelius said.

The tornado that devastated Greensburg, 175 km west of Wichita, started a weekend of violent weather in Kansas, a state in the heart of the United States also known as "Tornado Alley."

"We're getting pounded in Kansas. We have the need for National Guard in two different parts of our state now. This is really going to be a problem."

Sebelius and other Democratic governors earlier this year assailed the Bush administration for the strains they said the war had placed on their states' National Guardsmen, frequently mobilised for state emergencies.

Adverse impact

On Monday, anti-war groups, including the National Security Network and Americans Against Escalation in Iraq cited the shortage of equipment to deal with the Kansas disaster as the latest example of what they see as the war's detrimental impact on domestic security.

Very soon it'll look like former "East-Block" countries ... or for better understanding former, communist countries ...

gatorblue92 05-09-2007 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeydan (Post 1502079)

thats about what i would expect from the liberal scum in SF... if you hate the country so much then leave... and i don't for 1 second believe that a US solider wrote this

Matt L 05-09-2007 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B. (Post 1502296)
Oh, we already HAVE one, all right. (All those people like Mr MikeMover running around with their guns.)

Only thing is, it's not WELL ORGANIZED as the 2nd amendment mentioned.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension. After that, find out what "regulated" meant a few hundred years ago.

GottaDiesel 05-09-2007 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guage (Post 1502312)
That's my take on it also, we've been fighting for 4 & 6 years if they're in the service now they are lifers or signed on knowing we are at war!!! I wish I could thank them all personally.


Ok... so do it. Thank them. Right here, right now. I'm *very* curious as to what exactly you're thanking them for. Perhaps that will explain to people exactly what they are doing.

You have the floor.

GottaDiesel 05-09-2007 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guage (Post 1502342)
For serving their country in a time of WAR, it's an all volunteer force ya know,
not all people in this country are weak kneed and spineless.

Even if Ussama predicted that we would be after a couple of years.

Ok, so you're going to thank the people that joined AFTER the war started. What about the rest of the brave men and women? The ones that signed up BEFORE this all started? What do you say to them?

Txjake 05-09-2007 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel (Post 1502364)
Ok, so you're going to thank the people that joined AFTER the war started. What about the rest of the brave men and women? The ones that signed up BEFORE this all started? What do you say to them?

what is your point? I hope that you don't think that anyone who joins the military does not think that he may be called upon to serve wherever the country sends him. It has nothing to do with liking the war or not. A soldier's duty is to serve.

GottaDiesel 05-09-2007 06:22 PM

It certainly is to serve. Agreed.

But ask yourself, do you think people are more or less likely to join if there is a chance they will be killed?

aklim 05-09-2007 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel (Post 1502389)
But ask yourself, do you think people are more or less likely to join if there is a chance they will be killed?

If they are joining to ride the gravy train and now that the going gets tough they don't want to join then I say good. We DON'T need those kinds of soldiers. You sign up and you have to expect to get shipped out tomorrow. Anything else is your good fortune. If you are going to sign up in the hopes that you ride the gravy train and get off before the going is tough then maybe, this situation will be the best for the freeloaders.

So, once again, if these scumbags are not wanting to sign up because there is a chance they will get killed (military fights. In fights, some die) then we don't need them at all. If these conflicts are going to weed out those clowns, I would consider it a good side effect.

Kuan 05-10-2007 12:26 AM

***** even Bonnie Prince William is going to Iraq. :)

Edit: I mean Harry. Inbreds, can't tell one from another. :D

Matt L 05-10-2007 01:15 AM

Last I read, there was a question of whether that was really going to happen, due to his value to the insurgents. Has there been a reconsideration?

mgburg 05-10-2007 07:27 PM

*** Will someone PLEASE kill the messenger... ***
 
"Boo Hoo! I'm the Governor of a Big State and I can't wipe my own ass. Where's the FEDERAL Government? Why don't they take over? I can't even find my ass..."

"Geez, where's the TV camera? Is it on? Can I say something and make it all better?"

"NO?"

"THEN IT'S EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT THAT I DON'T HAVE "ASTRO-DIAPERS" AND MY STATE IS A BIG PILE OF 5HIT!"


"OK! Are the cameras off? Good. Call "W" and let's give him a tour and show him how bad things are."

"Better yet, let's have someone from my office stay connected to the media and issue "updates" on what's not transpired and we'll embarass everyone up to the President."

I'm sorry to see a town wiped off the map. Just keep the cameras away from the politicos that want "face-time" for THEIR OWN GOOD - NOT THE COMMUNITY THAT ISN'T!

:dizzy2:

Botnst 05-10-2007 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel (Post 1502389)
It certainly is to serve. Agreed.

But ask yourself, do you think people are more or less likely to join if there is a chance they will be killed?

That's a reasonable question. I have no idea about the stats involved, but the military is trying to expand it's active duty, reserves, and national guard forces, simultaneously while at war. In order to meet the new goals it has relaxed it's peacetime standards that were set very high because they didn't need lots of manpower. Now they do. So now they take recruits who have a minor criminal past and have not completed high school. In that expanded cohort there will be some people who get through taht will make poor soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen. Probably significant more than before the expansion and before the war. Thus, there will be a greater number who get in trouble and who get booted out.

Despite all of that, the retention (re-enlistment rate) among e-5 and above is still very high. What does that mean? It means that men & women who know the score, who have already served at least 3-4 years, are staying in the military. Also, the military academies have not dropped standards and junior officer retention is high.

What do these facts tell us?

B

Emmerich 05-10-2007 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken300D (Post 1502205)
There are newer schools in Baghdad than there are in Washington DC.

That's too much of a sacrifice to make for people who hate us and have no intention of changing their hate regardless of the circumstances.

Safer ones too......

t walgamuth 05-11-2007 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeydan (Post 1502079)

i am sure there are quite a few folks out there who would agree completely with the poster.

tom w

t walgamuth 05-11-2007 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guage (Post 1502101)
White House Rebuts Guard Shortage Claim
Associated Press | May 09, 2007
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration and Kansas' governor started Tuesday pointing fingers at each other over the response to last week's devastating tornado. By lunchtime, both sides had backed down.

With President Bush set to travel to now-razed Greensburg, Kan., on Wednesday to view the destruction wrought by Friday's 205 mph twister, Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius said she planned to talk with him about her contention that National Guard deployments to Iraq hampered the disaster response.

"I don't think there is any question if you are missing trucks, Humvees and helicopters that the response is going to be slower," she said Monday. "The real victims here will be the residents of Greensburg, because the recovery will be at a slower pace."

Sebelius said that with other states facing similar limitations, "stuff that we would have borrowed is gone."

White House press secretary Tony Snow fought back aggressively.

In an approach reminiscent of the blame game played by the White House with another Democratic governor, Kathleen Blanco of Louisiana, after the federal government's botched response to Hurricane Katrina, Snow at first said the fault for any slow response would be Sebelius'. He said she should have followed procedure by finding gaps and then asking the federal government to fill them - but didn't.

"If you don't request it, you're not going to get it," he told reporters Tuesday morning.

Snow said no one had asked for heavy equipment. "As far as we know, the only thing the governor has requested are FM radios," the spokesman said.

Well, not exactly.

At Snow's second, midday briefing with reporters, he offered that it turned out that the state had requested several items that the federal government supplied - those radios, and also a mobile command center and a mobile office building, an urban search and rescue team and coordination on extra Black Hawk helicopters.

Snow recounted a phone conversation on Tuesday between Sebelius and Bush's White House-based homeland security adviser, Fran Townsend, in which the governor said she was pleased with the federal performance on the tornado and had everything she needed.

About the same time, Sebelius was doing her own backpedal from across the country.

Her spokeswoman, Nicole Corcoran, said the governor didn't mean to imply that the state was ill-equipped to deal with this storm. Sebelius' comments about National Guard equipment were, instead, meant as a warning about the state's inability to handle additional disasters, such as another tornado or severe flooding, she said.

"We are doing absolutely fine right now," Corcoran said. "What the governor is talking about is down the road."

Sebelius has long spoken out about the fallout from sending National Guard units and equipment overseas. She says the war in Iraq is damaging domestic disaster readiness, because needed manpower is drained from states and the Pentagon is not replacing equipment at a fast enough rate.

Sebelius said she asked the Pentagon in December to replenish lost resources. She also said she spoke about the issue at great length with Bush when he was in Kansas in January 2006, and that Bush assured her that the money for replacements was in his budget.

Snow said the president recognizes there is a need to relieve pressure on the National Guard, and that it is one of the main reasons Bush has called for expanding the overall size of the military. But he also said that, regardless, there still are sizable numbers of personnel and equipment around the country ready to respond to disasters.

"If you take a look at the way the National Guard units are dispersed, you still have considerable strength in each state," he said.

blame the victims. this administrations pat answer.

tom w

t walgamuth 05-11-2007 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 1503429)
That's a reasonable question. I have no idea about the stats involved, but the military is trying to expand it's active duty, reserves, and national guard forces, simultaneously while at war. In order to meet the new goals it has relaxed it's peacetime standards that were set very high because they didn't need lots of manpower. Now they do. So now they take recruits who have a minor criminal past and have not completed high school. In that expanded cohort there will be some people who get through taht will make poor soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen. Probably significant more than before the expansion and before the war. Thus, there will be a greater number who get in trouble and who get booted out.

Despite all of that, the retention (re-enlistment rate) among e-5 and above is still very high. What does that mean? It means that men & women who know the score, who have already served at least 3-4 years, are staying in the military. Also, the military academies have not dropped standards and junior officer retention is high.

What do these facts tell us?

B

i heard a report just this morning on NPR that suggests that the military is concerned with retention of captains. they are offering 20k bonus for guys re signing. the person being interviewed suggested that 20 k would not cut much mustard with captains who fear dying or getting maimed in iraq. he said the captains look to the future and see redeployment after redeployment to iraq until they become a casualty and think that it is a good time to get out.

tom w

Botnst 05-11-2007 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 1503564)
i heard a report just this morning on NPR that suggests that the military is concerned with retention of captains. they are offering 20k bonus for guys re signing. the person being interviewed suggested that 20 k would not cut much mustard with captains who fear dying or getting maimed in iraq. he said the captains look to the future and see redeployment after redeployment to iraq until they become a casualty and think that it is a good time to get out.

tom w

Army & Marine captains have the most difficult officer's job in combat. To be effective, they must lead by example. That means lead from in in front, not by telephone. if some knucklehead screws-up, their necks are on the block right along with the knucklehead's. And the pay, though nice, isn't that great even with bonuses. Especially when you consider that they are the #1 prime target for every sniper with a grudge and every court martial looking for a victim. Despite the huge risk, those people still show up for work.

In the particular case you reference, it might be useful to know that the O3/O4 rank is a transitional period for officers. At that paygrade they make a decision whether to pursue the armed forces as a career or whether to seek civilian employment. Thus, it should not be surprising that in a military that is ramping-up it's personnel that there would be a shortage in the junior officer grades. It takes much, much longer to ramp-up officers than it does enlisted personnel. Officers mostly have completed a bachelor's degree or better and at a minimum, they must have passed the OCS training -- not a snap course.

So let's take the Citadel class of 2004 as an example. In 2004 the Pentagon decided they needed to increase the number of uniformed personnel in all branches. Immediately, they begin recruiting civilians and in 10 weeks they have a newly minted soldier. But it takes perhaps 4 years after 2004 before the first increase in officers hits the ground. Meanwhile, the enlisted portion grows and attrition in the junior officers continues. Even though the numbers of officers is relatively unchanged year-to-year, the need for officers has outpaced recruiting and retention. It will take at least another year and likely another 2 years before the service academies and ROTC is able to catch-up with the expansion needs. Combine that with the average retention rate and you'll end-up with a significant officer deficit for several years.

B

Ken300D 05-11-2007 08:47 AM

The obvious career path is to get out and become a Halliburton or KBR contractor. Big money tax free and no rules of engagement. :)

Ken300D


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