The Dark Side of the Biofuels Movement!

[SwampYankee]

Now it's getting serious!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18941618/


Biofuel brews up higher German beer prices
Farmers abandoning barley for crops that produce ethanol

Updated: 1:41 p.m. ETMay 30, 2007
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AYING, Germany - Like most Germans, brewer Helmut Erdmann is all for the fight against global warming. Unless, that is, it drives up the price of his beer.

And that is exactly what is happening to Erdmann and other German brewers as farmers abandon barley — the raw material for the national beverage — to plant other, subsidized crops for sale as environmentally friendly biofuels.

"Beer prices are a very emotional issue in Germany — people expect it to be as inexpensive as other basic staples like eggs, bread and milk," said Erdmann, director of the family-owned Ayinger brewery in Aying, an idyllic village nestled between Bavaria's rolling hills and dark forests with the towering Alps on the far horizon.

"With the current spike in barley prices, we won't be able to avoid a price increase of our beer any longer," Erdmann said, stopping to sample his freshly brewed, golden product right from the steel fermentation kettle.
In the last two years, the price of barley has doubled to $271 per ton as farmers plant more crops such as rapeseed and corn that can be turned into ethanol or biodiesel, a fuel made from vegetable oil.

As a result, the price for the key ingredient in beer — barley malt, or barley that has been allowed to germinate — has soared by more than 40 percent, to around 385 euros or $522 per ton, from around 270 euros a ton two years ago, according to the Bavarian Brewers' Association.
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[cmac2012]

The notion of bio-fuels is attractive at first glance but if we were to try to continue with the same level of BTU usage in automotive transport using bio-fuels exclusively, we'd soon exhaust our water and soil resources, or beat the hell out of them at any rate.

IMO, sad fact is, the petro we've become accustomed to using accumulated over millions of years (stored solar energy) and there's no way we're going to be able to duplicate that sort of energy reservoir except possibly by having a nuclear power plant in every little town in the country along with hydrogen generating plants.

Sooner or later, we're going to have to start using way, way less energy.

[dlssmith]

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Sooner or later, we're going to have to start using way, way less energy.

I couldn't disagree more. We are going to have to start using oil more efficiently. There is a lot of it, and we have a great distribution network for it. There is no reason not to exploit it. We have now or can reasonably envision greater efficiencies in the burning of fossil fuels. Hybrid autos are a good start, and can be taken further.

Have you wondered why a small car like the Toyota Prius is the only real hybrid option in the market place? Why aren't there large vehicle hybrids in production? Or better yet, Diesel - electric hybrids? Imagine the fuel savings if 95% of the American fleet were hybrids. And such a conversion would be essentially painless. No one would have to consume less energy and they'd be getting a lot more out of the fuel they now have to buy anyway.

Your comment about biofuels is right on though. We need food. And making fuel from food when there is plenty of fuel available makes no sense.

[TheDon]

there are always two sides to an issue. no different here... oh well

[SwampYankee]

I've received about half of the contract price lists from our vegetable seed suppliers/growers for the 2008 season and across the board prices are up 15-40% per variety because fields are being converted to corn. The price of veggies and garden plants will go up accordingly.

Bluegrass and ryegrass acreage is being slashed so the farmers can plant corn.

The price of fertilizer has gone up 15% over the past 2 months because of the increase in Nitrogen usage due to more corn acreage.

It's only a matter of time (already starting to happen) before the spike in price of silage corn drastically effects the price of beef and milk.

All in the name of Ethanol and its inherent inefficiencies in production and energy output.

I'm all for alternative fuels and renewable energy sources. I just don't see Ethanol as a viable option of any significance.

[dlssmith]

In the US there will be around 10% less soybeans planted this year because the demand for corn is high due to ethanol production. 10% of US production is a lot of soy protein. And then there is an increase in the amount of soy that is being used for fuel also.

We shouldn't trifle with the food supply. Ok, in the US we won't really notice the price increases. In developing countries? Watch out.

[Designo_E320]

Did anyone watch CNN's documentary, "We Were Warned?"

[ADP]

biodiesel hybrids and actual public transportation that goes somewhere?

Ann

[Hatterasguy]

Ethonal is a bad joke that the farmers lobies pushed through the government by bribing politicians. Hopefully the general public isn't brain washed into beleiving its a good idea.

[TheDon]

I agree. Ethanol is a joke.. Its a scam with the oil companies. If they can sell E85 at a lower price than RUG they win again. Since E85 is less efficient than .. leaded gas! consumers have to buy more thus pumping more money into oil companies pockets.

I say.. more biodiesel funding and legislation to allow more diesels.. oh but wait.. oil companies didnt even like the electric car... so I doubt they would like 70mpg + diesel hybrids

[Hatterasguy]

The problem if you will is that no one makes money off high mileage cars. So until consumers start to vote with their wallets and pay premiums for fuel mileage, we won't see them. I suspect fuel has to be damn close to $5 a gallon for that to happen.

[TheDon]

It was almost 8$ a gallon here after katrina and people were still buying it... While I tooled around on 100% veggie.. I was like.. suckers. I would park at the diesel pump and run in and get a drink... pissed off the ones that were waiting... I like them feeling what I feel when I have to use the only diesel pump and the dumbass in his gasser excursion parks in front of the diesel pump just to go in and buy a pack of cigs

[dlssmith]

Originally Posted by TheDon

It was almost 8$ a gallon here after katrina and people were still buying it... While I tooled around on 100% veggie.. I was like.. suckers. I would park at the diesel pump and run in and get a drink... pissed off the ones that were waiting... I like them feeling what I feel when I have to use the only diesel pump and the dumbass in his gasser excursion parks in front of the diesel pump just to go in and buy a pack of cigs

I'm not sure if ethanol is a big oil scam. I am pretty sure that it's a conservative scam, in the sense that they can tell environmentalists that they are doing something. But, any thinking person knows it's a zero sum gain - at best.

Obviously, veggie burners aren't the answer either. Though, I applaud those who go to the trouble. Must have been great during Katrina.

[TheDon]

I can ride a bike to work.. It's only 5 miles.. But To get to work it requires going down US-27 which is a highway with a speed limit of 65.. when everyone does.. 85.. So I have to drive and the weather permits bikes almost everyday so its disgusting that I have to drive that short distance because their is no infastructure for the safe commute on a bike

[dlssmith]

Originally Posted by TheDon

I can ride a bike to work.. It's only 5 miles.. But To get to work it requires going down US-27 which is a highway with a speed limit of 65.. when everyone does.. 85.. So I have to drive and the weather permits bikes almost everyday so its disgusting that I have to drive that short distance because their is no infastructure for the safe commute on a bike

This is further proof that the "alternatives" to oil are not very practicable. I'd love to ride a bike to work, but can't because of similar logistics. There are a lot of news stories about alternative fuels and the like, but when push comes to shove, oil is the answer. It does the heavy lifting in our society. It has allowed us to flourish.

Years ago, within my lifetime, we used it wastefully compared to today. Proof positive that conservation and efficiency measures are worthy and attainable goals. But, they involve oil. Period.

The news media rails against big oil profits when it suits them, but forget that those profits allow big oil to exist. If it wasn't big oil, what would it be, big buggy whips?