I read that F1 will permit kinetic energy recovery in the 2009 season. Teams are developing flywheel systems because there is quicker reaction keeping energy mechanical than converting to electrochemical and back. With these precisely tuned machines, isn't the last thing you need a 5kg mass spinning at 64,000 rpm? Won't such a gyroscope mess up handling?

Sixto
87 300D

You know Sport,they say there is nothing new under the sun.

Despite limited success on passenger buses in Europe in the '50's and use in Transatlantic liners mid-century it has not caught on.

The chief culprits are frictional losses and torsional deformation. My Dad had several patents in regards to this.

Nevertheless with today's technology it seems a viable energy-assist means.

I have a Popular Science from the '50's outlining it's use,have to dig it out.

If it's only one system then there would be a problem.

E = 1/2 Iw^2
Given the rotating mass = 64,000 and 5 kg, even if the radius is 1 cm the moment is 0.05 and 64,000 X 0.05 = 3,200J. Bet the moment arm is more like 10 cm since the longer the arm, the greater the energy . . . . . 32,000J. Imagine a meter moment arm!

E=1/2mv^2
Let's say the car weighs 2 tons = 4,000kg and starts to take a corner at 100 km/hr. It has 2,000 * 100,000m/3,600 sec = 200,000/36 = about 50,000J.

If it's a sharp corner then the vector product is going to be pretty serious, right?

I'll bet that flywheel is dead-center and low in the car and I'll bet there are at 2 flywheels turning opposite directions.

I didn't think of counter rotating flywheels. The article in MT only says the flywheel (singular) is 11" in diameter and 4" thick.

I'd guess for simplicity of design the kinetic recovery unit is installed coaxial to/with the transmission clutch. Then it would have the gyroscopic effect of keeping the engine revved as you slow through a turn. Or would it be a far greater gyroscopic effect?

Isn't F1 race weight something like 1400 lb?

Let's say a car hits the wall and the flywheel breaks free. Would such a disk spinning that fast slice through the car passing the wreck?

Sixto
87 300D

I think maybe 1400 is high for a weight wo driver.

I imagine the flywheels will be relatively light in weight but spin very very fast.

Dual flywheels seems like a good possibility. How does one harness it? Some kindof planetary action?

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

1400 lb is what I saw on wikipedia. Actually 13xx. It says car + driver weigh less and they use ballast to get to minimum weight before each race.

I imagine there are clutches that engage/disengage the KE flywheel like the electric motor in a hybrid drivetrain.

Sixto
87 300D

It says 1334 including driver and all fluids. so the car itself is less than 1200 in most cases. Pretty light.

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Electromechanical, IIRC. The flywheel is essentially an armature.

That makes sense. Very interesting stuff.

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Nah, they would just seal it inside one of those plastic packages that you buy video games in. Nothing can get in or out of those.

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Flywheels are being used as short term UPS systems in a number of Data Centers instead of batteries to cover the short term spikes, and power fails until the generator kicks in.

They encase the wheel in a vacuum chamber and use magnetic bearings to reduce friction.

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1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.