Excellent passage from Sir Winston Churchill

[Hatterasguy]

I am reading Churchill's book on WW2 and it is just what I expected from the great man. I am in aw at the quality of leaders the free world had back then, if we had a President who was 1/2 the man Churchill was we would be set.

Anyway here is a passage in the book where he talks about the rise of Nazi Germany, and Hitler.

"We must regard as deeply blameworthy before history the conduct not only of the British National and mainly Conservaative Government, but of the Labour-Socialist and Liberal Parties, both in and out of office, during this fatal period. Delight in smooth-sounding platitudes, refusal to face unpleasant facts, desire for popularity and electoral success irrespective of the vital interests of the State, genuine love of peace and a pathetic belief that love can be its sole foundation, odvious lack of intellectual vigour in both leaders of the British Coalition Government, marked ignorance of Europe and aversion from its problems in Mr. Baldwin, the strong and violent pacifism which at this time dominated the Labour-Socialist Party, the utter devotion of the Liberals to sentiment apart from reality, the failure and worse than failure of Mr. Lloyed George, the erstwhile great wartime leader, to address himself to the continuity of his work, the whole supported be overwhelming majorities in both Houses of Parliament: all these constituted a picture of British fatuity and fecklessness which, though devoid of guile, was not devoid of guilt, and though free from wickedness or evil design, played a definite part in the unleashing upon the world horrors and miseries which, even so far as they have unfolded, are already beyond comparison in the human experiance."

Its very interesting how you can draw parallels between the rise of Nazi Germany and the rise of Fundamentalist Islam. Churchill points the finger at the allies, namely Britain, France, USA and Italy, for not stopping Hitler in 1933. When as he puts it with great ease the overwhelming power of the allies could have been brought to bear on the weak Germans. Forcing Hitler to the table, to negotiate, forcing National Socialim the AKA Nazi party from its toe hold on power. Very similer to today when people want to "understand" terrorists, and are concerned with their "rights", and pull out of the war with them. Cheap politicians are willing to sell out our national interests for the sake of votes today.

Europes failure to stop Hitler in Germany in 1933 lead to this, may God help us if we fail to stop our modern enemy in the middle east. Because I can assure you tomarrow we will be fighting them on American soil.

Edit: guess the picture struck a nerve...

[LaRondo]

Nice shot of the Eiffel Tower, right there. Who are those Characters posing in front of it?

[Trakehner]

Reading about Sir Winston is always uplifting. I don't think people in the US appreciate him as much as they should. My friend's father is originally from Canada and he remembers watching Sir Winston's funeral on tv, everything in Canada was closed. My own father doesn't recall any such observances in the US.
I don't know much about military history so I'll tell you a few little unimportant things. Sir Winston is one of my heros because he, like me, was not a good student. It's always great to see someone who was such a poor student go on to do spectacular things! It might also interest you to know that Sir Winston loved horses, when he was a boy he wanted to spend most of his time around horses, he was an EXCELLENT rider. Oddly enough he was terrible about driving cars, he once drove himself from England to the French Riviera, he was very proud that he managed to do this all by himself and without incident lol. He was a BIG spender.

The man standing next to Hitler could be Speer.

[dynalow]

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Who are those Characters posing in front of it?

Criminals!

The one to Hitler's right is Speer. The other one looks like he's got an SS skull on his cover.

[Jim B.]

Originally Posted by dynalow

Criminals!

The one to Hitler's right is Speer. The other one looks like he's got an SS skull on his cover.

Speer, Hitler's personal architect is
on Hitler's right, correct. Hitler had asked him to accompany him on the tour of Paris.

But the man to the left of Hitler is Arno Breker, (1900-1991) Hitler's favorite sculptor. He was questioned by the Allies after the war but never was convicted of anything.

He was asked to accompany Hitler as his tour guide, on that tour after the fall of Paris in June 1940 because he had lived and worked in Paris in the 1920s and know it very well.

The photo was taken off the trocadero du Esplanade, I also saw the Eiffel tower from there myself several years ago.

[t walgamuth]

Churchill is one of my favorite leader/ authors too. Actually nobody who did as much in their life ever wrote like he did that I am aware of. He supported his fairly lavish lifestyle by writing from a fairly early age.

Trying to draw a parallel with today's islamic movement to Hitler's rise is apples and oranges though.

Hitler used conventional armies and equipment to do his deeds. Finding them and destroying them was no picnic but very dooable as long as you were willing to pay the price for the equipment and men. It was well worth the investment of course. True, if he had been confronted earlier many many lives ....millions....would have been spared. The people of England and France did not want war though and were willing to engage in the fantasy that Hitler could be satisfied by giving him this and that. But each time he consumed the offerning and kept building more equipment and larger armies until he was stronger than any one country ('til we got invooved).

The Islamic terrorists are guerrilas and as such are so dispersed it is just a totally different thing to find and destroy them. I suppose it can be done but this situation in Iraq is not the way to do it. If they would oblige us and assemble into large armies that we could destroy with our army destroying weapons it would work.

Why we are there really has little to do with destroying Islamic fundamentalism. It is an attempt to gain control of the oil rich region by men who think only in terms of oil and money.

This may be a good goal for the US in some ways but it has turned out to be like trying to destroy an invisible lethal gas with a shotgun.

Trying to combat the Islamists may be the right thing to do but the trick is how to do it?

Unfortunately it is a battle of increments and will be measured in terms of generations not years.



I have read Speer's book. It is a fascinating read. He was the only high ranking Nazi who said "I am guilty"...and the only one (save the crazy one who flew to England) who was not executed for his war deeds. He wrote his memoirs in prison and released them when he got out, I believe, and made a nice income from it. It was easy to see how a young architect got sucked into the Nazi machine since there was no work available outside it for an Architect. He turned out to be an excellent organizer and was eventually in charge of all munitions production for the Reich. His line was "I did not know what was happening in the death camps but I could have found out and did not, so I am guilty." Apparently he did improve the food rations for some of the prisoners who were working as slaves in muntions production.

Tom W

[LaRondo]

Originally Posted by dynalow

Criminals!

That's funny!

I'm just puzzled, as always ...

Here I go, in excitement and anticipation, to explore the thread as posted:

Excellent passage from Sir Winston Churchill

... and what I run into, is an oversized photograph of 'The Lunatic von Braunau' and some of his affiliates, taken during a recreational trip to Paris ...

[LaRondo]

... as if there wouldn't be any pics of "Winnie" on the net

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by LaRondo

That's funny!

I'm just puzzled, as always ...

Here I go, in excitement and anticipation, to explore the thread as posted:

Excellent passage from Sir Winston Churchill

... and what I run into, is an oversized photograph of 'The Lunatic von Braunau' and some of his affiliates, taken during a recreational trip to Paris ...

If you bothered to read my post you would see that I actualy was trying to make a point. Please read the original post then feel free to start a discussion on this topic if you want. If not please move onto the next topic, thank you.

To summerize it for you because I know people just skim these: I was making a connection between the rise of Nazism in the 1930's to the rise of Islam today. As in the failure of the civilized world to recognize and stop them.

[Botnst]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

If you bothered to read my post you would see that I actualy was trying to make a point. Please read the original post then feel free to start a discussion on this topic if you want. If not please move onto the next topic, thank you.

To summerize it for you because I know people just skim these: I was making a connection between the rise of Nazism in the 1930's to the rise of Islam today. As in the failure of the civilized world to recognize and stop them.

Next time draw a picture. A simple picture.

[LaRondo]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

If you bothered to read my post you would see that I actualy was trying to make a point. Please read the original post then feel free to start a discussion on this topic if you want. If not please move onto the next topic, thank you.

To summerize it for you because I know people just skim these: I was making a connection between the rise of Nazism in the 1930's to the rise of Islam today. As in the failure of the civilized world to recognize and stop them.

I already did submit my discussion point. It doesn't make sense to me. You want ot present his excellency, Sir Winston Churchill, by posting a picture of Hitler?
To me it does present the failure of those highly acclaimed World leaders.

You want to draw a parallel to todays confrontational situation with the Islamic World? It's not as simple as you present it.

One needs to keep in mind, that generally speaking, certain aggravations contribute to the raise of another.

As to the suggestion of stopping Hitler in his tracks in 1933, yes the Allies failed .. or maybe not. Their interest was to accomplish "Victory", not reconciliation.

Besides, if you wanted to write an essay about Churchill, would you really want to place a picture of Hitler on the first page of your essay?

[LaRondo]

Originally Posted by Botnst

Next time draw a picture. A simple picture.

... altenatively refer to the "Kitler" webpage ...

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I was making a connection between the rise of Nazism in the 1930's to the rise of Islam today. As in the failure of the civilized world to recognize and stop them.

A tragic parallel indeed. It seems as if folks just don't particularly wish to learn from history.

- Peter.

[jaoneill]

Originally Posted by Botnst

Next time draw a picture. A simple picture.

I have doubts whether the simplest of pictures would pierce the fog that seems to surround some of our erstwhile neighbors on this site.

Jim

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Besides, if you wanted to write an essay about Churchill, would you really want to place a picture of Hitler on the first page of your essay?

The essay was not really about Churchill as such. It was a warning to contemporary civilization. It was a quote from Churchill that draws direct parallels between the intellectual and moral weakness of the western powers during Hitlers rise to power and the intellectual and moral weakness of the western powers during Islam's rise to power. That is today.

The picture is a stark reminder of unintended consequences and very well serves its purpose.

- Peter.