Neither Social Security or public education are citizenship rights. Both are available to legal immigrants.

what am I missing here?

Legal immigrants are not citizens.

Your premise was that "illegals" were a drain on "the system" but what if the reality is that they are part of the funding of the system you allege they are a burden on? No difference?

"How is it racial." Are you arguing that past American "nationalism" has never been racial or ethnic racism? You're risking major credibility points if you choose poorly . . . ;)

And hiring legal immigrants would not be a violation of any statute or law subjecting a person to prosecution or penalty.

That they are a drain is adding insult to injury. Why should others have to go thru long lines while they skip to the front? That they are a drain is another minus. Either way, they are NOT supposed to be here.

How is it racial to want the illegals out? Do you have a door to keep uninvited people out of your house?

I think it is. Even if the agents stumble on them, (poor enforcement) the punishment is basically a slap on the wrist.

aklim, perhaps you are in such a rush to disagree with me, you fail to read and comprehend the statement?

My bad. Thought you were writing "illegal"

The history of immigration in this country is the history of labor. When we need labor, we let people in. When we don't need them, we ship them out (previously through racial prejudice, like taking away citizenship from American born children of American born parents of Chinese origin).

If you throw up a ton of road blocks, charge fees no one can afford, but still pay for labor, you can hardly complain when people find a way. If you hire them, they will come. That simple.

I don't know the actual numbers, but I believe MTI is right - most immigrants do pay taxes, including into SS which they can never collect. Most of them get paid by paycheck, with taxes already taken out.

americans are greedy when it comes to money (and other things, but for the sake of this post, money). the labor unions are in large part to blame, and you certainly can't blame people with little or no money for stepping in and taking the crappy jobs that americans are too good for, for pay that they are way too smart to take home. i am in the tech industry (software development) and we laugh about the massive outsourcing to eastern europe, and to a lesser extent, india. people boo-hoo about losing their jobs to them, but they'll switch to satellite over cable for five bucks a month difference and then boo-hoo again when they can't understand "johnny" with all of his dialect training on the customer support line. a lot of indian coders may not be as good or as educated as some american coders, but they are dirt cheap and a dime a dozen.

i was here through katrina and a funny thing happened afterwards...all of the fast food restaurants, gas stations, etc. that were at one time staffed by lower and working class couldn't reopen because they had mostly been shipped off to houston or lacked public transportation to get to their jobs. sure, they weren't illegal workers, but they were jobs that most people around after the storm were too good for. the short term effect was that you could make $14 and hour working at wendy's...had the hispanic population not moved in and taken over that income bracket from a jobs perspective, the suffering stores may have been forced to raise their prices to cope with the long term shortage and more expensive workforce, which the general population would undoubtedly have complained about as much as they complain about that socioeconomic class around here.

a good friend married a girl he met in romania about a year and a half ago and has been trying since then to get her over here legally...it really is a joke, i don't know how they expect anyone to go through the mountains of paperwork, control numbers, and general bureaucracy that it has transformed into.

for everyone who is calling for minimum standards for immigrants and the like...i sure hope you are american indians. i certainly don't condone illegal immigration, but you really should crack a history book and read about the laboring classes of immigrants (both legal and illegal) that helped build this country into what it is today over the past few centuries.

Yeah, lets forget about the idea of law. Lets forget about the fact that we can only support finite number of people. Lets forget about the strain they put on the system. Lets concentrate on the few bucks they dump in. Lets also forget that they are not stuffing big bucks into the coffers. Sure, we have many of them coming over as executives and what not so they are making huge tax payments.

Do you throw your front door open to any and all who want in or do you have to make sure that you really want them in your house?

US to foreigner marriages. There are two ways to do it. (LEGALLY!!!)
 

That is nonsense. Someone sounds pretty lazy and uninformed

There are VERY clearly defined routes and structures that are within the INS to legalise marriages performed between a US citizen and a non citizen.

He should have checked it FIRST.

One way is go for the K-1 fiancee visa, which allows a 90 day time envelope in which the foreigner is admitted to the USA for the specific purpose to get married in the United States, followed by a time frame of about 2-3 years of living legally with a provisional legal residence card. (Temporary "green card" in effect)

You need to pay attention to the rules. For example, anyone in the USA on a 90 day K-1 Visa may NOT leave and re enter the USA while there on the K-1 Visa. It was issued for ONE ENTRY only, and that is that.

The American needs to show proof the person he/she will marry will NOT be a burden to the US taxpayers, submit tax records and other evidence, proof of income and the like.

The foreigner needs to be examined at the US embassy in their country, for general health, TB, venereal diseases and other things by a MD.

At the end of that 2-3 year time, there is another interview with the INS required, to make sure it was not a sham or fraudulent marriage (PLENTY of those).

At the desk of the INS officer interviewing, there is a video camera aimed at the applicants. If they give suspicious answers to questions, the INS officer can start running the camera whenever he wants.

If no fraud is detected, normally provisional legal residence then becomes permanent legal residence.




The other way, is if the marriage was performed between the US citizen and the foreign national in the country which is outside the USA.

In those cases, the US citizen MUST come home alone, while the process starts to bring the new spouse home to the USA legally.

It is somewhat different. Often it takes about a year or so.


But the process exists. It is there, and exists to be used. IF you pay attention, and follow the rules, you can get through it, usually without even an attorney needing to be employed by you.

I shouldn't do it but I've hired one or two illegals about 7 or 8 times over the years. There is something really tempting about having guys lined up, ready to work exactly when you need them.

OTOH, not all of them are that great, most are pretty good but I've had a few who were sketchy.

Imagine if you could make 5 to 10 times your current salary if you made a trip up north.